June 11, 2010 by Stacy McDonald
Where do they get this stuff?
This morning, I woke up to find the following comment on my Facebook wall. A pastor’s wife was writing in response to a video I posted yesterday describing how “the pill” is an abortifacient. If her comment hadn’t been so troubling it would have been hysterically funny. She apparently doesn’t know the hundreds of large, homeschooling families I know. What do you think?
“I have no idea how anyone can care for the needs of so many children. Well, yes, I do: the kids are stacked in bunks, the garage is made into a bedroom (more bunks), the kitchen table is a door…”
I’m assuming she meant to say that a door is used for a kitchen table. Sounds very shabby chic! And since when are bunk beds tragic? I’d love to get rid of the one in my sons room, but he loves it!
“…and the big kids become babysitters for the many babies, none of whom are breastfed for more than a few months between Mom’s pregnancies… or else she’s tandem nursing.”
The older children loved helping with the little ones – in fact, they often accused each other of “hogging” the babies! And the little ones learn to pitch in too! Nobody in a large family can afford to be lazy or self-centered (though some certainly try!). Children are taught early that being part of a family means that we all live, love, learn, cry, laugh, sacrifice, and work hard together!
And for the record, this mama-of-many nursed all her children for a minimum of 18 months – and cherished the opportunity. My last baby was nursed until he was nearly three years old! Clearly, the aforementioned commenter hasn’t been around healthy, active large families.
“The household is chaos; nobody is given really fine instruction in musical instruments, unless the Walmart plastic guitar counts; the finances run in the red, and regular dental care is nonexistent.”
I grew up in a small family and never even learned to play the piano. Most of the kids I knew who played an instrument hated it, but their parents forced them to take lessons.
On the other hand, large homeschooling families are some of the most musical people I know! Several families I know very well play together as a family. At my daughter’s recent wedding, the string quartet, as well as most of the choir, consisted of large family members. I’m sorry this commenter didn’t do a little more research before drawing her conclusions.
“Mom surrounds herself with pillows at night in hopes that Ol’ Randy can’t find her, but he does, anyway. Next morning, she prays in angst to be made willing to bear another mouth to feed. Her wardrobe is all maternity clothes, because her poor belly never goes down. Birthday and Christmas money is earmarked for another bathroom. She is 35, and looks 50. Her husband drives a wreck and longs for windfalls of cash that, when they come, are instantly gone. Sound familiar, gentle ladies?”
I’m always amazed by the way Satan can use the normal trials and temptations of life and turn them into nightmare scenarios in our minds. Of course, that is the way fear works, isn’t it? Instead of seeing the beauty in a child of God humbly praying that God would give her an obedient heart, it is turned into a depressing scene of slavish abuse.
By portraying a “fruitful” wife as a weary, miserable wretch who is forced to have intimacy with her husband and sentenced to wear tattered maternity clothes all her days, my dear commenter creates a false image of despair.
The problem is, those of us who live this life know it’s a lie. Those who don’t, may be easily deceived by ridiculous scenarios! Fear draws its breath from the unknown. We are a people who, without faith, fear the unknown. But truth dispels the lie – and faith dispels the fear (Heb. 11:1).
“God gives us bodies that will reproduce automatically, and that was fine in a young, underpopulated Earth. Now, however, the planet groans with its burden of humans, and this results in massive crime rates, widespread poverty, and dense pollution. We need to be responsible in our family planning; the ability to reason is one thing that separates us from the animals.”
Have you looked into the demographic data around the planet? European nations are paying people to have children. Japan is giving people time off to “invest” in their families. The only significant segment of the global population that is still growing is the Muslim one. Check out this post Just Another Mouth to Feed.
Still, you are right, if we do not train up our children in the way they should go, we will raise heathens who could wreak their own personal havoc (the same is true for small families). And that is the point. Responsibility means we are accountable or answerable for something. Each of us is accountable to God for what He gives us. He has given me ten children to train up for His glory (I gave birth to only six of them, but I will say, childbirth is the easy part!).
And I take that responsibility seriously; but, it doesn’t mean I am going to “tell God” what I can handle. He gives me the strength and the grace to handle whatever He gives me each year – each day. He supplies all my needs; not all my wants, but all my needs. This doesn’t mean life is easy. There are difficult days. There are days when I struggle with selfishness, exhaustion, and fear. For I am weak. But God’s grace is sufficient for me. His Word says:
“My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.” (2 Corinthians 12:9-10)
Five of my children are now adults (three are out of the house – one engaged and two married) and I can say with assurance that God keeps His Word.
“What I’m hearing here is sentimentality, not godly obedience. Some of you advocate just letting nature take its course. You take verses out of context to justify this, but it won’t wash, folks. God never intended for us to abuse the very great gift of reproduction. “
What I am hearing are man’s ways glorified. What I am hearing is fear and lack of knowledge. Perhaps you’ve never seen a godly, large family living out their convictions with faith and joy. I’m sorry for that. But I pray you will stay a while and learn a bit more about the families you have so badly misrepresented. Grace and peace to you and to those who have believed the same stereotypes.
[Incidentally, "Quiverfull does not necessarily equal "large family." Read "Jesus-full" HERE]
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God says that blessed are those who have a whole quiver full. I just read this morning Gary Thomas(Scared Parenting)…..this was such a good scripture
He settles the barren woman in her home as a happy mother of Children. Ps. 113:7-9
i'm so saddened by the effect the culture has had on the church. that somehow women were talked into not having the highest blessings on earth. … See More
i have to pray not to be jealous of people that have that many children. i got married late in life and lost one child. but how awesome in one way that i would be jealous, when my whole life i did not even want children becauese career was crammed down my throat on all fronts. i did everything to not have them, because i was taught they were burdens not blessings. until i met Jesus. it has taken many years to see that children are a blessing. what a revelation to see the truth, but a sad one at that for me because i bought the lie, that hurts my heart so much now.
i loved this quote from Gary Thomas that i read this morning: …..the singular phenomenon of laughing with your child on the long journey we call parenting. When that laughter is born out of living together 24 hours a day, caring for them and sacrificing for them and delighting in them and disciplining them and getting angry at them and having them break your heart, melt your heart, and enlarge your hear- well , there really is nothing else like it. there just isn't.
he was referring to our culture's focus of how hard it is to sacrifice, but that if we looked at the so many who are barren that would never ever consider it a sacrifice for one second. it's so much how you look at it, where is your heart? is it focused on God and His kingdom or is it focused on self.
speaking of nursing , my boy who is 4 just came up stairs and said he was looking for some nursers. i know i have to wean him soon, but he's so still my baby. it's the best bonding in the world, so sweet.
children are a blessing and to see them as anything else is missing our heavenly purpose here, to spread the gospel, and what better way to do it than raise a army for Christ!
Wow…this is so disturbing….I mean how can someone claim to be a Christian and completely disregard Titus 2, Proverbs 31, etc.? Why are children considered a curse in our society? It makes me sick to my stomach. I praise God that my parents have raised me in such a way where I look forward to having as many children as the Lord wants to give me when I am married. Every time I read your blog I am greatly encouraged and I so appreciate and cling to the wisdom that you share. Thank you so much for continuing to teach me and build me up in my faith.
Wow that worldview seems like it came straight from the movies "Cheaper by the Dozen".
I am a young mother of three children one of whom died in a miscarriage. I grew up in a large family, my husband has a large family, and we both have a desire to have a large family.
I did sleep in bunk beds as a younger child and loved it, when enough of the older siblings got married, and my sister and I could have our own rooms we hated it, and could often be found sleeping in the others room.
Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Gen 17:2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant [is] with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Having a large family is a blessing. There is strenth in numbers.
Ecc 4:10
For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him [that is] alone when he falleth; for [he hath] not another to help him up.
We are a family with 6 children and it amazes me the number of women that say, "Six!! Wow! and you still look good."
I actually asked one woman exactly what she meant by that. Am I supposed to look all tired and run down?
She said that it was a stereotype of large families.
I HAVE seen mothers of large families on both ends..non-kept and very well put together. That is a personal choice of theirs. I choose to keep myself up. I am only 36 and I want to look like it. ;)
When I'm 46, 56,66 and older, I still want to look 36. Is that wishful thinking? LOL
Thank you for this post!!!
Am I correct? You said a pastor's wife wrote this comment? How pathetic… how sad… I can't imagine being in her congregation, unless of course one agrees with her (obviously strongly held) opinions. Slice and dice seems to be her mode of persuasion. I suppose that is what one must do when they don't have scripture to back themselves up:-(
Stacy,
Thank you standing firm and proclaiming TRUTH. You are a blessing to me!
Kela, You know that brings up an interesting thought: Perhaps because of the fact that most people have been convinced by the PP crowd that children drain the very life out of a woman, when a mother appears tired or disheveled, or if she is miserable for whatever reason, it is automatically blamed on the fact that she has more than a couple of children.
I know for me, when I have been at my lowest, it is because of sin (either my own or someone else's). Or it's because I've forgotten to keep my eyes stayed on Jesus. He is my strength. We can't blame the blessing for the burden. Make sense?
"For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”" (Matthew 11:30, NKJV)
"He will feed His flock like a shepherd; He will gather the lambs with His arm, And carry them in His bosom, And gently lead those who are with young." (Isaiah 40:11, NKJV)
"You will keep him in perfect peace, Whose mind is stayed on You, Because he trusts in You." (Isaiah 26:3, NKJV)
I honestly feel so sorry for this poor woman! I am thinking she has been hurt or has a root of bitterness over something, that goes really deep. That is so sad. I, for one, am going to pray for this soul that God loves.
We only have 4 kids because of a decision we made 11 years ago. I regret it now, but that is the way it is. We can still encourage others to keep going. We are raising our kids to be godly arrows so we can shoot them out into the world soon. They all are hoping for large families. :-)
Love to you!
Maellen
Stacy,
Thank you for answering this letter so well. People like this are many, unfortunately. And she, as a pastor's wife has a lot of influence. We must pray that God can get to her heart and open her eyes to the devil's lies she is accepting. And that she will then use her influence to promote biblical thinking.
I am in such shock there are no words…
Praise God for His work in women like the writers here to keep His word alive for generations!
Wow. She has such angry words. Thank you, Stacy, for not letting this one slide. It really needed to be addressed.
Wow. Just wow. I wish we could each invite this lady into our homes for an afternoon of fellowship. I only have 5 children. But what she would find is only one set of bunk beds, two daughters who play the piano, one who plays the mandolin, financial stability, happy children who spend tons of time playing outside (not taking care of the youngest all day), a mother who looks forward to her husband returning home and looks forward to time alone with her husband, and who is 37, but doesn't look it … I'm sure we can all say similar things. Where does this woman live?
Stacy, great job of answering this foolish woman. She certainly isn't writing with the wisdom found in Scripture!
I take great offense at the insinuation that a woman with a large family must look haggard and old before her time. I'll have you know that I am often told I look much younger than my ripe old age of 55, and as you know, I have had twelve children.
I won't bother to refute the rest of it, because you did a great job. I agree 100% with your post.
From a fellow homeschooling, bunk-bed filling, music and art enjoying, hard-working, happy and faith-filled mom of many.
Thankyou for posting this – I trust some people, who are soooooo misled by the lies of secularism and worldly wisdom, will read this and see the truth of how many large families view life. It makes me sad in my heart to hear comments from such ladies as that. Do they not realise that we are HAPPY?!? That our children are well balanced and content? That they are being brought up to love one another, to have responsibilities, and to care for others above themselves…and that THAT is the way things SHOULD be? No wonder our Churches are fading and dying, when the Pastor's wives are so misled. I am a Pastor's wife, but sadly, although mostly people have now accepted that they need not keeping asking "is that you finished now?", us having just had our 6th, they don't seem to UNDERSTAND why we accept these children from the Lord. Not really, deep in their hearts. Thank-you for your wisdom that you share, and for your desire to honour the Lord – God bless you and your family. x
One would think that the fine example of the Duggars would dispel many of the prevalent myths about large families, even if a person does not wish to have such a family themselves. In addition, poverty has much more to do with a mindset than with the amount of cash a family has. Depending on our perception of it, we can be rich with little or bereft with much.
Well. I am speechless. I cannot stop shaking my head in disbelief.
I have not been to your blog before now, but I am so impressed with how you handled your "guest". I am constantly amazed and perplexed at how deeply worldliness has infiltrated so many who would call themselves a Christian. Wow.
My favorite line from this post? "Fear draws its breath of the unknown." That is so, so true.
Carry on, mother-of-many! You are pleasing the ONLY ONE Who really matters!
Now, while I don't agree with this woman, I can, (and don't throw rotten tomatoes at me here!) see her point. (ducking) I have been around many families like yours. Beautiful, well adjusted, finanacially stable, etc… But, as an assistant pastor's wife myself, I have seen the other spectrum also. And there are families out there that are exactly as she described. 'Christian' families, no less. I do not condone anything that is an abortificant. In fact, my husband and I have 5 children 8yr. and under. But I kind of see why she writes what she writes. She has probably had to deal with situations that were pretty dismal and hopeless. We have to remember that not everyone is taught that children are a blessing! Yes, large families are a blessing. We know that, alot of people know that! BUT- I have seen the situations that she is talking about- the weary, frazzled mother, no financial security- relying on the government for housing, food, medical, and every other thing, and chaos. There are many situations like that. And this lady has probably had her share in dealing with them. So while I don't agree with her, I have seen what she is talking about. You probably just hit a sensitive nerve.
What a lovely reply Stacy. Thank you for seeking the Lord to speak the truth in love to this obviously angry women.
It is so sad that so many Christians are misled by the world about God's best. I had a pastor tell me that there are Biblical laws and then there are gray areas like how to educate our children or how many to have.
He said the Bible doesn't speak to those things and we have freedom. I had to share some truths from the Bible with him, but he just couldn't see the truth.
I guess it goes to show that if you shake a tree, you'll get at least one nut to fall out. As for being a pastor's wife, I guess that's her husband's calling, because she's not really portraying anything praiseworthy, herself.
I have 5.8 children, no bunkbeds, two trombonists, one clarinet player, and some piano bangers.
I'm not of the quiverful movement, but we welcome children into our home joyfully. This woman seems to have swallowed a bucket of bitter bile, and may not get over it in this life.
Stacy – excellent answer! I woke up early and saw her post on your page and wondered, first, who she was; and second, how you were going to respond! I'm shocked to read that she's a pastor's wife (guess I shouldn't be – it's hard to be shocked over much in the church anymore). Thank you for your biblical response. I found it very encouraging. I love you and your family that's just the right size according to the Giver of Life! Love you, Julie
I am 26 years old. I have to blessed Children. The first on at 20 and almost died to to toximia. I had a cardiac during labour. She was born at 34 wks gestation….My son born a day late had pooped in the womb, I had hypertension and massive blood clots and no feeling in my legs…seizures…When I looked up at my husband we thanked God that he blessed us so….I grew up in a single mother home, whe was angry worked not worked we lived in abuse much of our lives, I grew up in promiscuity, alcoholism, drug abuse ect….I grew up got married we are now Independant Fundamental Baptists, Proud Quiverfull movement parents. The Lord will always lead us to what is right!. I pray for this "minister's wife" and I pray for the misguided women in her church…Hate and Discrimination has no place in our churches.
We have been blessed with a very large family and have loved raising and homeschooling them – we are all close, yet each has their distinct personality and gifts.
The grown ones are praised to high heaven by their college professors or bosses or churches or volunteer organizations – they find themselves at the top or in leadership very quickly without even seeking these positions.
My husband has a very good job with grand insurance so we are financially stable but not extravagant. My children get twice a year dental care and braces and all the medical they need – which isn't much because they are healthy as horses from 12+ months nursing, no day-care or school diseases, healthy home-cooked meals, plenty of outdoor play, and no smoking or drinking or illegal drugs allowed. Art and music and dance and plays and speeches and crafts and kitchen creations and website designs and clothing originals and writing of books and short films abound.
We have zillions of books and art and games and videos and maps and collections everywhere. We are involved in church and clubs and the community as well as all sorts of competitions: music, spelling, geography, math, sewing, needlework, chess, speech, debate, photography, essays and fiction… lots of trophies and awards as well as tears and disappointments which we all share. We rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn.
Yes, it is hard work, but my mother will tell you raising two children in the public schools was hard work. We help one another and it all works out. Most people say I look very young for my age – I don’t take Zoloft or need a psychiatrist, I don’t have bulimia or cut myself – I don’t have time to wallow even when I do get down in the dumps. You know, I reread what I just wrote and realized most large families we know are very much like us. I only know one or two that fit the description given by the pastor’s wife.
Where do people get this image from? Many large families. If you are a large family it is not from the outside looking in like many other people are (including myself). Sometimes it does appear as if the older children are doing the majority of the child-rearing and the mother looks really worn out. Now is this true for all large families? No. Do I think the pastor's wife should have made such inflammatory statements? No. We are called to use speech that is uplifting and for the use of building others up. I personally would love to have a large family because my mom comes from a small family whereas my dad has 8 siblings.
I have a hard time believing this woman is for real. Seriously? A pastor's wife? If so, I feel sorry for the women in her husband's congregation. Such a loathsome attitude toward children. And marriage, too! To imply that we despise our husbands' advances and then pray that God won't curse us with another mouth to feed. Shame on her to suggest such a thing!
I'm 32, pregnant with my 4th blessing, and I promise you I don't look anywhere close to 50. (LOL) All of my children have been breastfed. Many of us who have larger families see breastfeeding as a way to space babies naturally. Thanks to ecological breastfeeding, our children have all been spaced about two years apart, giving my body a chance to recover and my baby a chance to grow up a bit before introducing a new sibling. My oldest weaned himself three months before he turned five. My daughter decided to quit cold turkey on her fourth birthday, and the 21 month old is still nursing strong. Incidentally, what *exactly* is wrong with tandem nursing?
I love this life, and I am so blessed by this calling to be a godly wife and mother. Are there bad days? Sure there are! But what working mother of two doesn't have bad days? God gives me His grace and strength *everyday*. The stressful times drive me to His feet. Isn't that the point? To live our whole lives at the feet of Jesus?
Oh, I could go on, but I will just end with the thought that these ideas seem to stem from the selfish, "me-centered" rhetoric that feminists have been feeding women for decades. "Why should you have to work so hard? When do you have time for yourself? Don't you just want to get away?" Living as though flat abs and polished manicures are more important that raising eternal souls to love, serve, and follow Christ seems pretty vacuous to me.
I am madly in love with my husband, I adore these precious children, and I am so in awe of the fact that God has chosen to bless me in this way. I pray that He would see fit to bless us with many more. She can say what she wants about large families, but her comments are completely off-base as far as I'm concerned.
God Bless,
:)Tiana
p.s.-I grew up with only one sibling, and we loved our bunk beds.;)
LOL LOL! Ok. Her comment really struck me as hilarious. And yet, yes. it is sad that large families are somehow percieved in this way!
I've seen many large families that are awesome in every way! I have seen several however, that are a disgrace. However, I will say this-they would probably be a disgrace whether they had 1 child or 20.
As far as tired and worn out goes… I have 2 kids and one on the way-and I'm tired! LOL! If a woman works all day, she's gonna get tired! whether it's a 9-5 out of the house job, or at home all day-I don't care!
N-e ways-great reply!
"or else she's tandem nursing…"
Yes, I am, and what is so horrible about that anyway? We love it and it is working well for us…
I have seen moms of 11 who looked great and well taken care of, and moms of 10 who regularly looked like their appearance was their last priority. I've also seen moms of 4 who look great, and moms of 4 who look bedraggled. Obviously moms of large families have lots of responsibilities, but I think that appearance is partly a priority issue. For the first six months of having two kids, I looked pretty frumpy myself, since survival and everyone eating breakfast before church were high priorities, and shopping for new clothes with two small children was a low priority. I think her points on finances are the same… I think most of the large families I know are great at managing their finances, out of necessity… whereas I know some smaller families who struggle because they aren't as disciplined about their spending.
I'm just curious why she thinks every problem someone has in a large family is from how many kids you have? What if a SMALL family has the same problems? What is the cause then? My children are my life. My little all share a room and LOVE it. I had my own room as the oldest of four when I was a kid and I was so lonely. My two sisters had a blast rooming together in their bunks and I was so envious. I bet this woman would get along well with a certain family member on my husbands side. I bet she grew up in a large family and was miserable and thinks that is the way for everyone. How sad for her that she can't see the blessings of children. I have had a stillbirth and miscarriage and six living children and I'd give anything to have all eight here as would their siblings and father. She is a woman to be pitied.
"…and the big kids become babysitters for the many babies, none of whom are breastfed for more than a few months between Mom's pregnancies… or else she's tandem nursing."
I'm pregnant with my second baby (due in October) and still nursing my first. And I do plan to tandem nurse, what's wrong with that? I love the bonding time with my little one. But I can assure her, I have absolutely no plans for my almost two year old (the big kid) to babysit her baby sibling. ;)
"Mom surrounds herself with pillows at night in hopes that Ol' Randy can't find her, but he does, anyway."
No! I never want to be intimate with my husband! He has cooties! *sigh*
Acctually, reading that sentence for probably the 5th time, its quite sad…
"Now, however, the planet groans with its burden of humans, and this results in massive crime rates, widespread poverty, and dense pollution. We need to be responsible in our family planning; the ability to reason is one thing that separates us from the animals."
This one really caught my attention. That has almost nothing to do with population and having kids. Everything listed there has to do with sin. If we, as Christians would preach the gospel, live our lives as Christians, and raise our kids in the fear of the Lord, that would help so much. The planet groans because of sin. We dont care for God's creation. We dont teach our children to love others and to care for the poor, nor do we do so ourselves. Another thing, what separates us from the animals is that we were created in the image of God.
Stacy, thank you so much for what you do wiht your blog. :)
I am the oldest of 9 children. I complained when I felt selfish but cried my eyes out when I got married at age 19 (which was 17 years ago by the way!) because I wasn't going to be in my parents home to be with my little brothers and sisters. I could barely handle the separation. Doesn't sound like abuse does it? I loved them, I loved caring for the babies, and yes, us older girls always wanted to hold the babies.
There were lots of chores to do, but we were far from poor. Poor teeth? Well, my father is a dentist, so I think not! My mother is an empty nester already at age 59. I know people who will be a lot older when their children leave the house because they waited until their forties to have children. She is certainly not poor and haggered. I'm shocked by the comments this person posted. I'm even more shocked that she doesn't know that widows were not even accepted into the church to be supported unless they raised children, washed the saints feet etc… We must give of ourselves. Pure religion in God's eyes is taking care of the fatherless. Children are important to the Lord and are an heritage from the Lord. They are his reward. There is no mention in the scripture about overpopulating the earth but there is about multiplying and filling it. Jesus is the same yesterday and today – it doesn't matter if we think certain scriptures are only for a "time". The bible does not say so.
Is there a verse about having too many children? Is there a verse supporting not reproducing? Since when does being with your husband become a burden – unless you live in a loveless marriage.
Just because it's hard work to feed a family, clean a house, and raise children does not make it a curse. Does the bible say that? I have not read such a saying. I have read that we must preservere in well doing so that we can win the prize. I have read that the Lord supplies all our needs by His strength. I have also read that whatever we put our hands to we should do with all our might.
But if pure religion is caring for widows and the fatherless, not other apparent important church activities, then could children be important to God? I would say so – they are the next generation that will carry the gospel to the nations.
I'm a mother of almost 5 (5th one due in a month), and I adore my 8 siblings. I have breastfed all my kids for almost 2 years each. I have many hard days, but so do my friends who have only 2 children. They ask me how I do it because they are so beaten down. It's not how many children it's your attitude towards them, towards work, towards selflessness. Your attitude towards your role as a mother and wife. Can you carry the cross the Lord gave you, realizing that his yoke is easy and his burden is light. This is everyone's struggle whether we have children or not.
I adore my children and couldn't imagine not having any more. I see how it is enriching my older ones and helping them overcome selfishness.
A man who is blessed has a wife who is as a fruitful vine by the sides of their house, and many children as olive plants (strong and healthy) around their table.
Let's teach our children to love others, give of themselves, be willing to serve their children. None of the comments I read had biblical backing – where are the bible verses? Does God think this way? No, he doesn't.
But he loves children and gives them to us as a blessing. Look at how Jesus rebuked the disciples for pushing the children away from him. He took them into his arms and told the world we must have faith like one of these little ones to enter the kingdom of God. My little ones love each other and love the babies we have. They are not tainted by the culture. They have a simple faith and a pure love for others.
A sister to 8 and a mom to almost 5!
It is so sad, but I find that this is the thought of most people in the church world today. We have 4 children(we have 3 more in heaven because of miscarriage). I would love to have had all of mine here with me, the more the merrier! My children are not the most musical I've seen, but they love music. My oldest plays the piano, flute and some on a harmonica. All self taught or should I say God taught. My next one plays the guitar and sings. My third plays the drums. My smallest loves singing and drumming, but she's only 3 we'll see what she does:) As far as the material things go, my children will remember the times together and the love shared more than they will remember what was bought for them or whether they had their own single bed or bunks. I truly feel sorry for people who view large families in this manner. I wouldn't change mine for anything except maybe to make it bigger.
Stacy, I so highly regard you! Your response was loving and accurate… Jesus full has been my all time FAVORITE blog post of yours.
As a mama who can't carry babies anymore it breaks my heart when I see those who can and don't want them.
Beautifully written!
I like the way this post was written, full of truth.
Children are a blessing, true some days are more difficult then others, motherhood some with ups and downs, but overall the gift of motherhood is a great blessing from our Lord and find that they are bring me closer to Him each day!
I have 3 little girls age 3, 18 months and 9 days, yes life is busy and I have the "you know how to prevent more???" comment all the time! But yes in the middle of mountain of laundry, piles of diapers and long breastfeeding session. I still find time for our Lord, my husband and each of my little one. The house is not perfectly clean all the time and dinner is sometime late but we are loving each other and that is more important :-)
Thanks for sharing this beautiful post!
Renee
I have to say, the pastor's wife's post was very well-written and pretty much covered all the bases of objections to large families. I thank her for that as it gave you the perfect opportunity to address each of her points! I thank you for that. ;0)
At one point in my life I felt the same way she does. Now, because of people like you and Michelle Duggar and a few other women the Lord has used as examples, I have had a change of heart and mind. The pastor's wife might, too.
By the way, my daughter and I started to notice, several years ago, that mothers of many often looked very youthful (one of them being my husband's grandmother who was the mother of 14). We wondered if it was due to their exposure to large amounts of progesterone during all those pregnancies.
Oh my, that is so very sad. We have 8 children so far; my babies all nursed for 15-24 months. We are debt free and pay cash for our vehicles. My kids ask to sleep on the floor most of the time; I'm not even sure why we wasted our money on beds for them. They have bunk beds, but two kids will sleep on one bed, leaving the other empty. They ask me if they can hold the baby and fight over who will change her diaper. I pump and make a bottle every once in a while b/c they keep begging me to let them feed her.
I know why the world views children as burdens, but why the church agrees is shameful.
This is so sad.
What makes it disturbing to me is the global assumptions that this individual has placed on all mothers of many. Instead of offering grace she chooses the worst scenario.
I am the mother of seven children. All homeschooled. My oldest daughters take classical ballet…and they teach ballet. They are active in leadership at church. My 14 year old has her own business. My 12 year old is an aspiring pastry chef. Yes, they work (which is what my blog post today was about) and still they are individuals.
The sad part for me is that her comments were self and worldly driven. Our culture and society is a world of entitlement…not work…and in fact, if the needs the society deems necessary are not met then that life style is scorned.
There is beauty in older children comforting younger siblings. There is joy in a home full of laughter. There is peace in a family reading together, praying together, and doing life together.
My prayer is that her heart is softened and that she realizes that her words were words of judgement.
Thank you for your post.
Rachel
I love you Stacy MacDonald! Once again you bless my day. Thank you for your book, "Raising Maidens of Virtue." I am 20, not married and so glad I read it just in time! I can use this time wisely.
Thank you for your response to this ignorant comment and I realllllly hope the person who wrote it can read this blog post and also meet a REAL large family of God because he/she obviously has no clue. Poor thing I sure hope she finds out.
Thanks, Hopeful Maiden – I love you too! :-)
How do you know this woman is really a pastor's wife? Maybe she is not, and just saying that she is. That's the trouble with blogging. You never know…..
If she is a pastor's wife, well, as you and I know, Stacy, pastor's wives are only human, too, and capable of being angry and bitter sometimes. I don't like to hear, "…and she's a pastor's wife!" as though perfection in every way is a requirement for being married to a minister (I wish I had a nickel for every time I've failed in other peoples' eyes). That is too much of a burden to put on any person, and breeds resentment in many pastors' wives and children.
This woman may have grown up in the type of home she describes and resented it. Or maybe she has seen many large families that are as she has described and felt sorry for the children.
I have seen large families like that….and I've seen small families like that, too. Not everybody manages their family well, large or small, unfortunately. Not every mother has the same stamina or organizational skills, either.
Blogs like yours and others that show good home management are very valuable.
This woman sounds very bitter.
How sad.
The writer might be glad to know that we just finished our REGULAR visit to the dentist this past week…we usually go in groups of three or four :)
My son did an in depth study on "over population" and discovered that if all humans on earth were stood shoulder to shoulder, they would fit on 1/4 of an island in New Zealand!!!! Seems to suggest there's still PLENTY of land here.
And "hiding from husbands; praying to be able to feed yet another mouth?" It's more like: My heart still skips a beat when he walks in a room and I am soooooo sad and trying to learn to accept as a blessing the fact that God has not blessed us with another baby in three years!!!!! My three year old son was our tenth child…and the last six came in under 7 years time.
Chaos? Yes! At times, it is…but that's when I like to remind myself that even though I can not function in the midst of chaos…GOD CAN….and DOES SO PERFECTLY, CALMLY, and PEACEFULLY…tending to each and every soul in the room…ALWAYS!
Thanks for sharing this post! As a newby to your blog… I'm never disappointed with what you offer to read. I appreciate your non-defensive spirit and how you turn things around to encourage others. Keep it up!
Wow, that pastor's wife successfully took every negative stereotype about large, Christian families, then threw out every positive attribute of large, Christian families then tied a big, jaded bow around her (obviously) limited large-family experience.
Worst of all, she carelessly chose to ignore and misuse God's Holy Word in defense of her bitter opinion.
My husband and I had eight children, but allowed ourselves to cut off God's blessing of fertility because of societal and family pressure. We then realized how horrifically wrong and ungrateful we had been towards our Heavenly Father for His gracious blessings.
After alot of time and money, we are now joyously expecting our 9th child! You never realize how valuable conception is until you can't conceive.
I pray that large families in the church today will do a valiant job of showing the (christian) world how precious, life-affirming and enjoyable this lifestyle can be.
I would like to remind us all that (and I believe some of you have indicated this) this dear commenter is a sister in Christ. Yes, she is misinformed; and I agree, she chose her words poorly and hastily. But, we never know what is fueling someone's fire.
I try to remember that when I meet angry people in public. Perhaps they just found out a relative has cancer? Maybe their spouse abandoned them? It could be that they just lost a child, or that they are dealing with a rebellious or sick child.
Not that any of that excuses sin, but, just as we are weak and fallible, it makes it a little easier to bear.
Anyway, I don't know the whole life story of this commenter, but I do know that we are called to pray for one another, bear one another's burdens, and be longsuffering.
So, with that in mind, I suggest that we focus more on the "good" testimonies of our families, and less on the foolishness of others.
When you say she is a sister in Christ, do you mean that she is a professing Christian or that she actually bears the fruit of repentance? Do you really believe she had a true conversion? I'm asking sincerely.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Matt. 7:21-23
You defended God's role for wives, mothers, and women very well.
Bravo!
I am sorry to hear just how many women are deceived by the enemy of our souls into believing lies about what it means to be a mother and God's commands to multiply. There is no verse in scripture where we are told to stop or slow having children once the population reaches a certain number. Children are always a blessing!
My husband and I have been married just over 3 years. We have 3 children, almost 2 1/2, 1 and one due in August. All told I have NOT been pregnant for about 9 months out of our married life. And for the first time since our oldest was born, I am not nursing at least one baby right now. Yet, I feel so blessed to be given such wonderful gifts from the Father, not burdened with a life that I wish I could escape. I am truly blessed to be chosen by him to be mother and wife and I hope some of these women will come to realize the great blessing they are missing before it is too late for them.
as a mom of four with #5 on the way…(my oldest is 6, then i have a 4 year old, 3 year old and nearly 2 year old with special needs) i can say yes i'm tired but no i'm not anything like what that woman described. my belly is not forever large, infact i loose the weight pretty quick. yes i did tandem nurse, and LOVED it. i nursed them all except my 2 year old until they were 2. my special needs baby couldn't be nursed because of medical problems.
i am so happy to be having another baby, and no i don't fear intimacy with my hubby or pray against having more blessings.
people like that woman who make terrible conclusions about moms with lots of kids, they make me sick. how can they presume to judge us when they have never been there? i find most of those people even if they have kids didn't want them. (i see parents all the time say infront of their kids terrible things and oh the hurt in those children's eyes! how i wish every parent saw their children as blessings!!)
i love this post, enjoyed reading it. thank you for posting and dispelling this woman's misconceptions.
About that door for a table….a dear Christian woman I knew with six kids HAD a dining room table made from a door. I ate more meals in her home while being washed in the Word and my kids loved by her older kids, than by any other woman with a few kids and a lovely, expensive table.
I have six kids and we have lived in poverty and in comfort. Having more money certainly hasn't made me a better mother. What makes me a better mother is staying strong in the Word, staying on my knees, staying in fellowship and in love with my husband, and staying in touch with other godly, Christian women.
Would that I were as "miserable" as you. Blessings to your family!
I can not believe she does not believe the part in the bible writes that children ARE a BLESSING from the LORD! I guess people pick and choose what they want to believe from it. Sad!
Well, all I can say is that my 5 children are the best thing that's ever happened to me. Because of reproductive issues, we didn't even know if we'd be able to have one child, let alone five!! These kids have grown me up, humbled me, matured me, stretched me, and generally made me a WAY better person than I ever would have been apart from their presence in my life. They are a blessing!!
Another thing: I am a nurse, and have worked in a nursing home for a time, and I can tell you that, without fail, people really don't take "it" with them, whether it's their money, fancy home, or very nice things. In fact, it is very, very sad to watch someone who has had a lot of money in this life be reduced to the most basic essentials before they die. Many of my patients were only able to bring a dresser, maybe a chair and a few knickknacks, and their photos. All their other "stuff" got left behind, suddenly of no use to them any more. Many of those who invested their lives in the accumulation of "stuff" found themselves very alone, broken, and without the warmth of family as they prepared to leave their earthly lives. Because I worked in a Catholic nursing home, I took care of many residents that had had very large families. Their experience at the end of their lives was vastly different, generally, than those who had only one or two kids. Big families, through their shared hard work and struggles and joys, become bonded in a way that those without large families cannot understand. There is a loyalty and love that lasts throughout this life, and beyond. This "Pastor's wife" is truly missing the boat. I would love to know how her one or two kids turned out. My guess (and it's ONLY a guess!!) is that there are problems in the family, brought on by all the emotional distance this lady obviously evidences. I'll take my bunk beds any day over a scenario like that!
A news channel and the "web" has had individuals negatively shredding the Abby Sunderland family(Christians?, 7 or 8 children?, homeschoolers?, abusive parents?). There are naysayers and rumormill turners abounding only having piecemeal stories of individuals and families for Christ…and a fair share toward those against Christ. On the other hand, what opportunities abound by our manner of conversation(how we live) that reaches out to those without the body of Christ or those that are the Lord's workmanship being grown by grace in His perfectly orchestrated timing.
After reading of the plight spoken of here, was pointed through another blog to a sermon on persecution from a few years ago that spoke to my heart in such times as these. May it bless others, too.
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/1188.htm
what a horribly misinformed person the commenter is.
i agree there ARE some families that live the way she wrote BUT…not the majority.
As a pastor's wife myself, I am slightly amazed at the assessment of large families made by this woman. It seems like either she's bought into the world's way of thinking about families or this is a sensitive subject for her (esp. because she's commenting on the video about the pill be abortificient). Or both.
My husband and I have 2 children so far, and it is the best, most challenging, happiest, most difficult thing that we've ever undertaken. What a blessing that God has given us 2 beings to constantly grow us in HIM! I think of who I was before having my little ones, and I wasn't worth two pennies rubbed together. I still probably am not worth much, but I can guarantee that I'm not 1/15th as selfish as I once was. To trade out our blessings for curses is a shame to the Gospel.
However, most people have bought into the overpopulation myth, the "every mother of many looks like death" myth, the "many children=many headaches" myth. It's not uncommon for us as fallible humans to look at the causes of our problems to be external instead of looking at our character within ourselves. It goes back to Genesis ladies "This woman whom YOU gave me GAVE it to me…" We neatly shift the blame to someone and something outside of ourselves. Instead of challenging our character, and recognizing our sin, we challenge our circumstances.
As a pastor's wife who has done much nursing home ministry, I don't think you can make blanket statements about people with large or small families. I've seen elderly people with many children who are forgotten in nursing homes, and people with one or two children who come and visit them regularly, or take them into their own homes, and vice versa. I myself have a small family, but my children care for me very much. I support those who have large families, too, and affirm them.
Our job as Christian wives and mothers is to do the best that we can with the size of family we have, mind our own business, and avoid scoffing at others. The woman Stacy mentioned is a scoffer (like I said, she is obviously bitter, perhaps from personal experience — maybe having been raised in a home like the ones she mentioned and resenting it, you don't know what drives bitter people), and we don't need to turn around and be scoffers, too, scoffing at bitter people, scoffing at people with small families, (or large families) returning tit for tat.
And, I believe that people who are truly saved and converted can fall into circumstances that make them bitter — it can happen to me, too. It is easy, when you are young, to think that will never happen to you. We need to guard our hearts, and pray for people like that, because we don't know what made them that way. We pastor mostly elderly people, and the hard knocks of life sometimes make them very bitter. Sad but true. Let's try to be understanding.
Thank you for this well written, beautiful representation dispelling all of the stereotypes that exist about large families!
I have 10 children, my sister has 5. We constantly hear " Wow, you look great for having 10 (5) children". It has now become a sort of joke–and I now ask, what is a woman with 10 children supposed to look like?
My husband and I have been married for twelve years and we are happy and enjoy each other! I love it when he rolls over in bed to find me!
I am told all the time that I do not look old enough to have all our children, guilting me into divulging my age so they stop thinking I had our first at age 13.
:)
We have six in our home now and I am due in Oct. My husband is self employed and so our income changes from year to year but we have no debt besides our mortgage, which we are working on, so fluctuating income is no big deal. Our kids are clothed and cute and love each other and our oldest begs to help with the younger children.
I take effort to dress nicely and do my hair and makeup each morning for my family and because when I am out and about, I realize I am representing my husband and his business and also Christ within me.
Our boys have one set of bunkbeds – the girls are envious! They have dental care and we're just getting ready for our first set of braces.
I guess I just want to praise God for how He has blessed us. Neither my husband nor I come from large families and it is not really embraced where we live but I cannot imagine any other life so beautiful as the one God has given us.
Hannah
Clearly Ginger, Stacy believes the woman in question is a genuine sister in Christ. It's a wise reminder not to assume.
It's great when kids are close and houses are big. I love my sisters, but eventually really needed my own room, and they too eventually moved into their own individual rooms. Every family's different.
"If we looked at the so many who are barren that would never ever consider it a sacrifice for one second"
But it would be, at some point. Families and loved ones are just part of that.
I wish this lady could visit in my parents' home…
I have 8 younger siblings, who all live at home. My mother didn't "tandem breastfeed" until the twins (numbers 8 and 9) were born! My parents also homeschool.
My momma has her Bachelor of Sacred Music from Canadian Bible College, and so all of us kids have grown up with a love of music. In fact, I considered a career in music after graduating with honors from highschool.
My sisters are amazing musicians with videos on Youtube, they play piano, drums, and guitar and write all their own music.
My favourite memories of "home" (I am recently married and living far away from my family) are of my siblings and parents hanging out and visiting together in the living room or around the dining room table (which is not a door!)
I slept in a bunk bed for a good part of my childhood and loved it, and my younger siblings still sleep in bunk beds. Children love bunk beds!
My wedding reception was in December, and my entire family was such a huge part of the celebration – my sisters performed their music, my brothers entertained as only young boys can.
When I was growing up, my friends (from smaller/non-homeschooling families) would ask if they could come over, because my family is so wonderful at making people feel like part of the family!
I can't wait to have children of my own with my darling husband, and to pass on the love of family and love of God that my parents gave to me.
I am so glad that you, Mrs. McDonald, were so calm and patient and well-spoken in your reply to this lady – I pray that she reads your reply and the comments from the other ladies here and that her heart is softened.
- HollyElise
Hello Stacy,
Thank you for sharing this post. Your response was so gracious and for that may God recieve all the glory! I am the mother of six wonderful blessings and just today I had a conversation with a gentleman who was conducting a "master class" with my daughters who play violin and cello after he made a comment that he could not believe I was the mother of six children. When I asked him what a mother of six children is suppose to look like, he stated that in his mind she would not be so young (looking I'm sure he meant … I'm 42 years old), relaxed and full of energy:) I give God the credit since the joy of the Lord is my strength! Our three oldest girls study vioin/cello in addition to piano and we are always receiving compliments on how advanced their skills are since they have more time at home after their studies in which to enjoy their instruments. Our eldest daughter is only 13 years old and is auditioning for two of the best orchestras here in Toronto, Canada this year! I feel so sorry for this pastor's wife. She seems so angry and bitter. I sense no joy of the Lord, and for that I will pray for her!
Love & blessings,
Carolyn
The comments from the FB poster were creepy at best. It's really sad that she is a Pastor's wife and longs for cars and vacations.
I was only able to have one child. We never used the pill or other prevention devices. Today is my one son's birthday. What a blessing it is that God allowed me to have one!
The saddest part of the comments for me is that so many woman believe these lies. If they would just open their Bibles and take God at his word… I've been in so many churches with woman who think like this.
It's sad when the Muslims faith for large families outshine Christians.
I absolutely and completely agree that it's sad that people actually feel this way about God's blessings…however, I'm also very saddened by some of the ladies very negative responses towards the woman who made them. I agree with Stacy that we need to keep in mind what she might have gone or is currently going through to lead her to these opinions. We should be nothing but encouraging and positive and showing her love. What value is there to putting her down and worst of all – questioning her salvation? Not our place. Not our place at all. :(
Hmm..this is exactly the reactions towards mý family of (only) six that we receive all the time.. But don't worry, these people are just born like old pessimist and will be old nagging granny's (I know, I worked at an old peoples home!). But we moms know that we are happy, the kids are doing great and we do good on earth.
I live in Europe, the Netherlands, but we are absolutly NOT payed to get children overhere! In fact, the government makes is nearly impossible to stay at home as a mom or even to raise children. Avarage birth is 1.8 children per couple (and going down) and avarage age of the mom when she gets her first baby is over 30 years old (and going up!). Children go to school overhere until 23-25 years of age. Than they have to find the right partner, pay for an superexpencive house, work work work… Now the government wants us moms to work too. All of us! So, when dad works alone for his family, they let him pay more taxes than dads that have a working spouce. All children should be in daycare and so on… Well, I know a lot of daycare children (most are overactive, uneducated and have 'big mouths'or they are overwelmed by it and don't speak at all…the poor children!)and I am not enthousiastic over this system. Maybe you can let your children play with other children at home, just to socialize, but other caretakers are not loving your child like his parents do, so they are not hugging and kissing your child when they have to take care of him or here…
You see, with only four children overhere, we are looked at as a 'bad' person or even a 'very dum' person.
Be happy that you live overthere, you can be able to live up to your own ideas!
I commented on this post when it appeared at LAF.
I totally believe that this could have been written by a pastors wife and a Christian woman. There is a certain segment of the church population that takes great pleasure in criticising and tearing down anything related to QF. They are regular participants in gossip blogs and forums denigrating the Duggars, apologizing "as Christians" for the "horrible", "crazy", "cultic" version of Christianity represented by the Duggars. :( They pull together bits and pieces to form assumptions about QF families, and make broad, sweeping, denigrating statements. I have seen Christian women state outright that they think Michelle Duggar is mentally ill, for remaining open to children.
I have been struggling a great deal with anger towards people who do this. It is unfair, it's gossip, and extremely frustrating. The worldview of this woman who commented so authoritatively on large families doesn't seem to allow for the possibility that leaving aside birth control might result in something good. Her sexual innuendo is supremely offensive as well.
And for the record, I have only three living children. They are the light of my life. I would love to have more because I think each individual child is such an incredible, unique, fascinating gift from God. Why wouldn't I look forward to more? My husband is out of the country at the moment and I miss him desperately, yes even at night. With our smaller family, we choose deliberate simplicity in life and finances, and we don't care who thinks we're crazy. We're well fed, clothed, sheltered, and living a life that is truly one of luxury compared to the rest of the world.
Our personal choices as a family are just that. Not every family has to be a "symphony family" or a "soccer family" or a "National Honors family". We like our quiet life very much, and our children are thriving. IMO, most of the objections given are 1. based on cultural ideas and not the Bible and 2. Applicable to any size family.
I hope this lady will run into some families whose demeanor and love of the Lord and their children will force her to rethink her bitter assumptions.
Ladies Ladies
Please do not judge this pastors wife.
Your judgement is sinful and not of God. God used all his people for His glory. Many of them were childless. I am sure you are great mothers and love your families but having large families is not the only way to glorify God. This critical spirit is not Christ like. Please be kind.
Georgia, do you have the same words for the critical spirit of the pastor's wife? I have rarely run across anything as bitterly mean-spirited as what she wrote about large families, not to mention quite vulgar.
To disagree with or to provide rebuttal to false accusations and generalizations is not "having a critical spirit". It can be done in that way, but I do not see such a spirit in many of the comments here. Try frustration, sadness, and hurt.
I do see more than frusteration, sadness and anger in some of these words, Cappuccino; some of them go beyond a critical spirit. I think Georgia's point is that the woman's words have been addressed more than enough. Now perhaps those who use sharp words and cut into her heart and possible history may want to pull back a little.
Stacy,
It seems that this poor angry woman has lost her Bible or her reading glasses or all of her biblical sense. Even if what she said were true, is it any of her business? No. It's not. God gave us our children to raise the way we see fit and we will answer to Him for it. Our witness, whether we are "put together" or not, is between our God and us.
Her angry conclusions and harsh assumptions are hurtful and incite anger in the reader. I do wish we could show her the love of a large family and change her mind toward the truth.
The church is now the most unlikely place to find wisdom, truth, and biblical knowledge.
What a shame.
I’m sorry but I actually laughed at that poor lady’s response. It sounds like all quiverful families are out of a Victorian penny dreadful poor house novella. I am happily pregnant with our 5th child.