September 3, 2009 by Stacy McDonald
How Do You View Children?
Recently, the Dugger family announced that they are expecting their 19th child. 19 children! That’s almost twice as many children as we have and people consider us a large family! What was your reaction when you heard? ABC posted a rather ugly response to Michelle’s announcement and received over 260 “interesting” comments in reply.
In a 2.5 world, people tend to gasp at such news. After recovering from the shock, many have questions. While some have ugly things to say, I tend to think most are just curious. Folks ask, “How in the world do you do it?” “How do you afford to feed them all?” “I can’t keep up with two I have already!”
Or some snicker, “Don’t you know what’s causing this?” In our experience, people are usually supportive and kind, but most still have an “I’m just glad it’s you and not me” undertone to their response. Why do you think that is?
There was a time when men would slap one another on the back to hear that a friend was so blessed; and women would shout with delight, gathering around the expectant mother with hugs and smiles. What happened? Why are children today viewed as a burden (so don’t have too many), rather than a blessing (“Lord, I’m ready to be blessed with as many as you want to give me!”)
I’ve republished below an article I wrote around two years ago, Blessing or Burden. I also invite you to read Quiverfull Defined as well as this interesting news piece published in February 2008.
Blessing or Burden?
Recently, we discussed the Christian call to view children as blessings and not burdens. I invited my readers to view the trailer for Demographic Winter and talked about the falling birth rate.
I’ve also been considering the growing disregard for life, evident in the forced late-term abortions in China (for couples daring to have more than one child) and the shocking attempts of a mother to end the life of her own brain-damaged daughter (even at the objections of the young woman’s father).
In our country, we are seeing marriage (and how it’s defined) minimized. We are seeing full-time motherhood (and true, God-ordained fatherhood) devalued; and we are seeing an ever-increasing all out attack on the image of God—a growing disdain for human life (even among some who claim Christ). For too long, many Christians haven’t seemed to notice the atrocities. God’s name has been blasphemed amongst the heathen—and it’s our fault—the Church’s fault. But now many Christians are finally taking notice—and doing something about it.
So it’s no wonder that as we come out of the fog of our illusory me-managed life, that we become passionate about certain things. Life becomes precious. Children become a blessing. Marriage becomes a feast. Family becomes important. But in our zeal do we go beyond examining our own sin—assuming sin in others and ascribing motives to those of whom we know virtually nothing?
Today, I read a post from Amy at Amy’s Humble Musings. She wrote about her “Thoughts on Contraception and the Quiverfull Movement” and I thought she made some good points. So much of my frustration over this subject has come from people wanting a list of rules – either my rules or a spare list they can “borrow.” Rather than realizing the “spirit of the law” they want me to tell them they should follow the “letter” of it. Instead of embracing the idea that God’s call to multiply was a call to be blessed and be a blessing, many would rather focus on what happens if they reject that call—at least part of it. In other words, they want to know exactly what I think would make their situation sinful.
As soon as we share a personal conviction on practically anything there are a host of people responding with, “But what if…?” Or ,”I disagree because in my experience…” Or, “What about in my case…?” “Or “When does it become sinful?”I recognize their statements because I have said many of the same things. We love rules, don’t we? It’s so much easier to check off a list of do’s and don’ts rather than to study what God has revealed to us in His Word and live by the spirit of it. I like Amy’s words here:
“Christians are a lot like two-year-olds. They’ll read what the Bible says and then start looking for loopholes and lines. Instead of obeying the spirit of the command, they’ll look to see how much they can get away with before making a technical violation. Instead of just staying in the family room and enjoying it, they [Amy's children] want to know what the rules should be if a meteor were to hit the house…”
“The issue of contraception use among Christians is the same. We know that God thinks children are a blessing and a reward. We know that it is normative for married couples to produce children. We know that the world is anti-child and that God calls His people to a different standard. We know that abortifacient means of avoiding children are wrong…Because of these things I’ve had eight pregnancies in the span of nine years already. But as folks with straying, scraggly toenails, we also want to know where the line is. What is forbidden, what is required, and what is permissible due to our freedom in Christ?”
Many times, rather than study for themselves and stand firm in what they believe, I’ve seen folks blindly embrace someone else’s convictions. Then, since the convictions weren’t their own to begin with, they waver and eventually they give up in despair; because really, they weren’t truly obeying God, they were just going through the motions. The result is that they blame the one they’ve been blindly “following.” They blame their idol for their idolatry. We must know what we believe and why. We must not follow anyone but Jesus. God is a jealous God and He wants our unrivaled worship, devotion, and love.
I also like what Amy says about what is called the “Quiverfull Movement.”
“The quiverfull movement (QF for short) is good for the support of its members. The culture has gone its own way off a cliff, but they’ve planted the flag. Raising a large family is difficult in our society. We do well to share strategies unique to the challenge. I’ve benefited from it. Where it strays course is when it assigns motives to those outside of it. “Selfish” and “not trusting God” are the catch phrases. I’m not willing to go there…”
And neither am I. Our view of children matters. The way we obey God is crucial. But it’s important to communicate these truths without being condemning. We can teach Scripture; we can discuss our thoughts on what is happening in society; and we can share our own personal testimonies of how God has changed our heart. But I’m not going to turn the “quiverfull topic” into a battering ram – or a measuring stick of who “trusts God” more; because the fact of the matter is – I have enough to worry about when I consider my own sin.
Let me be clear—our family believes it is important to surrender all to God—including our wombs. We believe that “birth control” can include an obsession with having children as much as it can include an obsession with not having children. God is sovereign. We are passionate about accepting and embracing God’s gift of children and we do believe that Christians are called to bear and raise up godly seed (if He so chooses to bless them) for the glory of God.
Yet my heart breaks over the terror a precious couple faces in China after a child was ripped from this grieving mother’s womb against her will. There are so many situations that warrant prayer, understanding, and the grace of God.
Still there are amazing stories of faith and perseverance. Read here about a 2 foot 4 inch woman who was told that if she ever had children, she and her baby would surely die. She has two beautiful children. Be sure to watch the video – her joy is contagious.
Amy reminds us that the most important thing for us to do is to honor the Words of Jesus (and not just the words, but the spirit of them!):
Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these. (Mark 12:29-31)
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56 Responses to “How Do You View Children?”
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Very eloquently put. I think when I heard about the Duggarts addition I was a little uncomfortable. Not because I think that many children are not a blessing, but because I feel so strongly that there are SO many children out there who are neglected, abused, and suffering from poverty that could be freed from it all if adopted. My husband and I are expecting our first child in about a month and are thrilled. But we plan to have two of our own and then adopt from there, because we feel God calls us to care for the orphan, the widow, the ostracized and outcast. I have to admit it's hard for me not to judge a family who continues to have children when there are so many children who are in such desperate need of a loving home right here right now. Of course, I have to confess that judgment immediately because its so wrong! I am not the baby police! Thanks for your blog!
Oh, I know, the child-shunning prevalent in contemporary culture is so ridiculous – and irritating. I also wrote an article on the subject: http://crosseyedblog.com/?p=979
My mom is expecting her 9th baby, a girl due December 5th. That will make the ratio 6 girls and 3 boys. :-)
~Amanda~
I really just can't say thank you enough, for posting this.
Well said. I admire the Duggars since even though they are QF I have never heard them condemn those Christians who are not. It grieves me that society and even many Christians view children as leeches on the environment.
I must admit, the announcement made me slightly afraid for myself–what if I have that many?! But, then I stopped to think: Clearly, Michelle and Jim Bob are capable of parenting that many. God knows that. That's WHY He gave them 19, and I've only got 2 (so far). HE will grow me if/when He blesses us with more children. I won't wake up with 19 kids one day and no skills to raise them up. He provides. And, what an amazing marriage the Duggars must have to have been judged worthy of 19 blessed children!!
Lovely and well-stated. Thank you. I have read Amy's post before and it is chock full of much to ponder.
While my heart is with KayMay on this, if the Duggar's feel this is how God wants them to handle their procreation, that is great. I enjoy their show and it is one of the few on television today I feel comfortable letting my children watch.
I am not personally convicted about birth control. My husband had a vasectomy after our second son was born, we subsequently adopted a third and may adopt more. He had the surgery because my pregnancies were all difficult and pre-term.
I don't feel that decision was sin. At the same time I think large families are great (several of my friends have large families) and I enjoy watching them grow and learn a lot from them (as do my kids).
interesting post =)
Children are a blessing from the Lord. We're to treat children as blessings and have the correct attitude.
Anytime I have seen the Duggar Family in pictures or via television and internet, each child is well mannered, clean in appearance and well dressed.
We all can learn from this fine family's Christian lifestyle and beliefs concerning respect for God and toward one another. Learn from their attitude about work, learning and teaching. Also learn from financial health and over-all general living.
I suspect the Duggars pay their bills and take care of their estate. Any child born into this fine Christian Family will be loved and treated well.
The Duggars are not the cause nor responsible for all of the world's children that are abused, neglected and suffering from poverty.
Thank you Stacy! That was very well put! I think we all need to be careful to not follow a particular movement and seek the Lord for His guidance in our lives in every way, even in childbearing.
Beautifully put. It is important to do our best to obey, but not at the sacrifice of the spirit — the heart — of the message of the Scriptures. It is so easy to look at others and judge. I believe the Lord didn't mandate a specific number of children for a reason. If we are truly walking with the Lord, no matter our situation in life and whether we are blessed with many children or none, our quivers will be filled and flowing over with Him!
Thank you so much for this post!
People today are too selfish to have many children.
I read through the comments on the ABC Duggar piece – I was really quite surprised at the tone of the article itself, and had braced myself for the "comments"… I am so glad that there were so many to speak out against the article, particularly it's tone. Hurrah for people at least semi-learning that you can be polite and disagree! :)
I did not read your entire article, but,I think as long as they can afford that many kids(or not), if they feel God calling them to have as many children as He deems, then go for it. My husband and I have 10 children between us. His and mine.(No ours)!
A interesting article…that I need to read again and again. We're still on an exciting journey in our home studying the scriptures around this issue but over all we know children are a blessing and that we are called to be a KINGDOM building generation that raises Godly arrows for HIM. We welcome blessing in our home; whether from my womb or by receiving a broken child who needs a family. I celebrate with the Duggars as they speak of Gods grace and faithfulness; they are raising wonderful children and building a strong home.
Thanks for helping us in our journey Stacey!
Frankly, I DO get tired of hearing about the Duggars; I think their child-broadcasting seems self-important. What I really dislike is that some of those who support them are the same sort who condemn working moms. Well, frankly, a working mom with three kids could probably give them each more attention than the total of fifteen minutes a day that Mrs. Duggar proudly said she could give each of her children.
I think it's interesting to note how many hecklers of the Duggars maintain that they are destroying the environment and our resources with their large brood. Meanwhile, the culture insists on numerous automobiles per family, endless electronic gadgets, convenience foods that result in wasted energy and packaging, and a host of other "necessities" that are far from being beneficial to life, must less necesseties.
Truly, we have traded family for materialism, and then we turn around and blame families for the terrible consequences our materialism has wrought. It is not the existence of people that damages resources and nature; it is the insistence of the people to live unabashedly selfish, indulgent lifestyles.
I'm not advocating that one should do away with modern conveniences or avoid the pleasures of a good movie, loud music, or a dinner out; but we should evaulate how our insistence on constant pleasure and ease hurts our communities (few children, unstable marriages, single parents), our land, and our resources, for that is the cause of our problems; not children.
I admire the Duggar's as well as your family and others who have chosen to allow God to bless them with as many children as he will. I agree with pretty much everything you wrote in this post, but am still unsure and fearful about applying it to my own life. I admire the Duggars so much. I feel children are a blessing, and home and family life aside from our relationship with Christ is first and needs to be first.
Blessings,
Lacey
Yours has been the most thoughtful treatment of this subject that I have read. Bless you for reminding us to leave judgement to Providence, while we listen inwardly for what we are called to do.
Wonderfully written!!! We have 5 little ones so far!!! I do not think we have a terribly large family either, yet we get comments like this! We also get these comments when people see us instilling the joy and blessing of children in our children!!!!
I just get a little offended at the assumption that all parents of large families have the option to adopt a needy child. Some of us have looked into it and found this not to be at an option for us at all. The requirements for having a child of your own are much more lax than the expectations of adoption agencies. If the opportunity ever arises to help a needy child and we are able to do it, I'd like to think that we would not hesitate.
Jennifer,
The point of the discussion was how children are viewed – as a blessing or burden. By sharing their lives, the Duggers seem to have done a good job of allowing strangers to take a peek at what life is like in a family that values children. I don't know what they are like, what their motives are for being so public with their lives, or how they feel about any of it. I've never even seen their television show – we don't own a t.v.
But I do know that sharing your life with others is not always fun. There is an element of sacrifice that goes along with it. You can't automatically judge their motives saying that it's out of "self importance" that they allow their lives to be public. You have absolutely no idea why they're doing what they're doing. Your opinion is purely conjecture.
Your comment about those who support the Duggers doesn't even make sense. It was a sweeping statement about a huge number of people who believe all sorts of different things.
And I'm not sure where you heard that Michelle says she spends 15 minutes with each of her children, since you don't give a source. But I will say that some people don't understand the dynamics of a large family. We are together all day long, yet we don't often have the "one-on-one" time that is so hyped up. We like being all together. One on one time happens naturally (going to the grocery store, late night talks etc.), but we don't plan them and they don't happen every day.
And everyone is happy with the way that works out. We are a close family, so nobody needs an appointment with mom or dad the way it may happen in a household where nobody is home and everyone has their own social life.
Please remember to treat the Duggers graciously – as you would want others to treat you. Don't make assumptions.
Phew! What an array of comments.
So much opinion, so little Scripture.
Psalm 127 tells us that the man who has his quiver full is happy.
Psalm 128 talks about children being olive plants around our table.
It also mentions that the wife is like a fruitful vine, "in the very heart of your house."
The 'Church' today is so secular that they can't seem to tell the difference between what the word of God tells us, and the world imposing their position and 'morals' on us.
But we have to choose who we will serve, Joshua 24v15.
I only have 3 children, and at 47 they won't be having any more brothers or sisters. But I wish I had known then what I know now.
I commend the Duggars for their faith and trust in God. When you do obey God, expect opposition, criticism, rejection, hatred, etc.
Then you won't be surprised when it does come, because it will come.
By the way, my husband has a cousin who has 22 children.
Long post. Sorry.
God bless.
Well said, Stacy. I was thrilled to hear that the Duggars were expecting #19. I do watch their show (one of the few that I do watch) and am refreshed to see a Christian family that loves children on TV. The ugly comments about the Duggars seem to be people judging what they don't understand.
We believe that there is no set max or min to one's quiver. We trust in the Lord to determine that number. God has blessed me with three children in my quiver. I'm 41 years old now and it doesn't seem like I will naturally have more, but one never knows! We would joyfully welcome more, if that is God's will.
Because my 3 are close in age, many people would ask me if they were all mine or if I was crazy to have that many in such a short time (they are 11, 10 and 8). Certainly, I have just an average sized family and still I get these comments. Very interesting and telling, I think.
Thanks for this post as I had not heard the big news about baby #19 up until now!!
I would like to think we are all "quiverfull". Quivers just come in different sizes, don't they? I have 2 young daughters. After the birth of my second daughter I suffered a hemorrhage requiring a hysterectomy-so my quiver is smaller than some, but it sure is full!!
Since my body no longer has the ability to produce children, I have developed an even keener sense of how truly blessed it is to bring a child into the world. What a miracle! I would never want to judge anyone by how may times they choose to be blessed by the Lord with a child.
Victoria
"People today are too selfish to have many children"
That's a very sweeping statement. I think many in society would be grateful that people who are not equipped financially, emotionally, or mentally to have children would not have them.
II Corinth 10:12 says "comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise."
and Psalm 127:4-5 says: "Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, So are the children of one’s youth. Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them; They shall not be ashamed, But shall speak with their enemies in the gate.
Dora, not a one of those Scriptures commands an unlimited number of children or forbids birth control. Do you think the Bible intended to say that every person will be happy with a full quiver? Do you see this as a command? If so, that is just one more opinion here.
I have six children myself, they're wonderful blessings that I wouldn't trade for anything in the world!!
I get unkind remarks, people making inaccurate assumptions and judgements, or the crass comments about "what causes that" or any number of other things. It doesn't help that I've been married 3 times (but that's another story altogether)and have children with both ex-husbands and my husband now. :(
My husband is currently deployed, but, when he returns, we are also not using birth control- we feel that we will not attempt to control the number of children we may have after this deployment or not…. Leaving this in God's hands.
That being said, I was a bit startled (in one sense) to hear that the Duggars are expecting #19… I honestly can say I guess I'd been assuming that they'd stop having children once the grandchildren started coming… But, it's their personal choice and their faith.
And I think the "article" on ABC was completely disrespectful, hateful and completely uncalled for. :(
Why is anyone shocked? they have been clear that they are not "done". It is totally between God and them and I say more power to them! God is blessing them. You can tell because there is fruit in their children's lives.
What a radical testimony for today's society. Go Duggars!
"It's their personal choice and their faith"
"It's between them and God"
Exactly (though I don't see why they don't keep it between them and God). It's a shame more people can't have this attitude towards those who choose NOT to have anymore children. Many times upon hearing the QF belief discussed, I've heard that no one has the right to choose the number of their children, that only God does, but then upon defending the Duggars you hear that it is indeed a matter of choice. Ironic.
Hi Stacy,
I think it's amazing! I'f folks are worried about overpopulation they might be interested to know that Japan is now the latest in a growing line of countries trying to pay people to have more children!
Interesting that this was on ABC's website. Baylyblog has a post up noting that Diane Sawyer is to be the new evening news anchor on ABC. Just one more reason to stop watching network news.
If it weren't for my recent addiction to "footy" (Australian Rules football", I'd give up my digital tv converter and hook up my dvd player again!
Kamilla
I love children and life, and it's very depressing to see the Duggars treated this way (though we all know they are blessed for it!). I myself could only have one, but I am young and we are starting our foster-parenting life next year since God has seen fit that we don't have anymore. If I could, I'd do exactly what Michelle has done.
Stacy,
I did it! I gave up my digital converter and hooked up the vcr and dvd players last night – and spent a nice quiet couple of hours watching "Waking Ned Divine" while I picked up and dusted my bedroom.
Kamilla
What I am going to write is our family's conviction. A journey the Lord has taken us on. So we don't expect everyone else to be there.
When we heard of the Duggar's new arrival we were so excited for them! I don't think that God has called us all to have 19 children, but I do believe that He has called us all to submit our lives to Him. You see we just had #5, I went through post partum depression, something I had never had. It caused me to be exremely selfish and wanting so much for me that I lost sight of what God had for me. We had a reversal 2 babies ago and feel so honored by God that He would bless us. But when I went through my depression all I saw was what the world saw. But thankfully I have such a loving Savior who helped me through and I am more of fire for Him than I have been. Loving my children and humbly submitting to where He has me. I am excited to see where God takes us. But you see, it was the very first Duggar show that changed our lives! We watched the Financial Freedom Seminar and began our journey. You never know of the people that God places in your life, through any medium. Thank you for your love of God and family and how you post what is biblical, it is very refreshing. But we all have to come to our own convictions by our own relationship with God. Have a blessed day!
Thank you for this post Stacy! Children are such blessings whether you have a very full quiver or a little one! Mine is still small (3 little ones) – and although I'd like more, both my midwife and a specialist have prescribed some intense self-therapy through herbs and Mayan massage for the next year. In that time, I should not get pregnant – we will of course use timing/natural methods while I take a physical break to heal! I'm realizing part of being quiverful is making sure one's body is healthy enough to maintain pregnancies and mine is not right now.
I also felt the need to pipe in on the adoption issue. Though I'm not offended, I have difficulty with the casual way some throw out the argument that "there are so many unwanted, why don't you just adopt" argument. They just don't realize how difficult it IS to adopt because of how screwed up the adoption system is. It's extremely expensive and legally taxing. Strangers psychoanalyze your home and if you approve of Biblical discipline (i.e. spank), parents can be immediately disqualified. When my husband and I looked into adoption through mainstream organizations, it would have cost us upwards of $40,000 on top of legal fees. It's sad that adoption is so cost prohibitive when there are plenty of families with the means to provide for a child.
What Michelle said (about adoption).
My husband and I have been blessed with six children on earth (#6 is due in November). We have agreed that we'd take in a sibling group in a heartbeat, if they'd just come to our door and say, "Here's your 'new' children." BUT, that isn't how it goes. The "qualifications" to birth your own children are much less stringent than those of adopting parents (monetary, for one).
Allowing God to plan our family means being open to whomever He sends our way and provides the ways and means to care for him/her. That may someday include adoption, but for now, we're certainly thrilled to take them biologically! :)
Children are a curse, and debt is a blessing. Isn't it ironic that this is the way of the world these days ? We are called to be in the world, but not of it. The Duggar's are blessed – 19 times and more. Thanks for sharing this.
Tammy
It wasn't my intent to be ungracious; I said it "seems" self-important to have so much publicity, and I feel this way with all who participate in "reality" shows. I dislike this kind of television very strongly, because I have no wish to know that much about another's private everyday life and such shows resemble very little of reality in any case. If the Duggars wish to publicize so much, they should indeed be prepared for criticism; I have no personal problem with their lifestyle, but just don't care to hear so endlessly about it.
"It was a sweeping statement about a huge number of people who believe all sorts of different things."
I was not referring to all members of QF, but certainly some of them. The main criticism of working mothers is indeed lack of time with their children, yet I have seen some of these accusers praise Mrs. Duggar, whose time is preoccupied to a point I probably can't imagine. And no, this doesn't make sense, but such people rarely see the contradiction in their own logic. As for the comment about fifteen minutes, I heard it from one who has seen the show.
Thank you for this post! My husband and I have 3 biological children and feel the call to be "quiverful through adoption"…. I would love to hear more about families who feel this special calling from the Lord! So often, when we tell others we can have children, yet are adopting, they respond, "why?" We do pray to have more bio kids one day, but are now following His call to adopt from Ethiopia! You can follow our adoption journey at http://www.flitterbugs.blogspot.com
My view of Michelle Duggard is like…..she IS superwoman. Wow. She is an amazing mother. I have watched some of their tv shows. I can't get enough of them! They are the very definition of kind, honest, and good. You can see God in their lives.
My only concern is……how far I am from that ideal!!! yikes. I know they aren't perfect, but they really are a special family.
I think that's why many are concerned about that show, Sarah: there is no superwoman, only half-reflections of a whole life away from camera. Women shouldn't compare themselves to others or hold others up as THE example to follow.
Having said that (above), I do believe Michelle Duggar is a special woman :)
Interesting discussion! I agree wholeheartedly that children are a blessing and I only wish that I were in a position to be blessed with more (I'm a single mother).
However, I believe Mrs. Duggar weans her babies early (at six months) in order to regain her fertility. While I appreciate her love for children, I believe that since God designed babies to breastfeed, we ought to do so even if doing so means we have to wait a little longer for the next blessing. But perhaps (hopefully) I've misunderstood the Duggars' position on early weaning, in which case my concern is misplaced. :)
Sharon – I have no idea what Mrs. Dugger does in regards to weaning, but I do think "birth control" can go both ways. It always makes me sad to hear that a little one's precious time of nursing and nurture was cut short by a mama too anxious to get pregnant again.
Contentment is a great gift.
The scriptures given above are in line with God's word. He said to be fruitful and multiply, to fill the earth and subdue it and he never said to stop. Just because we have the advancement to "stop" having children doesn't mean it's an option God gave us because he's okay with us limiting his hand.
God does not bless everyone with 19, or 14, he only gives some two or four or none. There's no limit, God gives and takes away he has a mission for each family to accomplish. The ultimate goal is simply to let Him have his way. When we "stop" having children we are limiting his hand stating that we know better than He does. Yes, there are needy children out there, and we are to minister to them, but no where in scripture when we are told to do this does God remove the comand to be fruitful and multiply. Having children only greaters the Lord's hand. If we have 10 children who have 10 children who have 10 children, that means we'd have 1000 grandchildren and if we believe God is faithful to his promise to be their God as he is ours than we will have one powerful Army to witness to those hurting nations. Limting the number of children God may give us is to limit what God can do for us. It's a BLESSING to be used in this way. That God would choose to use a woman to bring forth a baby to serve him one day as a man or woman is an amazing gift! It's not about having as many children as you can, it's simply about letting God be Lord of ALL our life, including our womb.
Some comments have been harsh towards those who are "quiverfull", ultimatly it's simply going to scripture and seeing what God says in his word about children. I have not known one couple who searched the scriptures in regards to this who came back saying anything about wanting to limit their family size.
But we are ALL (who profess Christ) the body of Christ and there is no need to condem one another for having many children or not having them. We need to respect one another and treat one another with love, not condem each other.
Many people who have the "quiverful" mindset have a multigenerational vision, they aren't doing it just for today they are doing it for the Glory of God for the future. So through his people he will have a great army, to change the world we know it to go back to glorifying God. They are actually far from selfish as they self scrifice every day for the golry of God and for future generations. And they raise their children to care about the orphans and widows…it sometimes is more than it seems.
"When we "stop" having children we are limiting his hand stating"
No we are not. God is all-powerful; if He really wants a couple to have children, He can easily break through the barriers of birth control and give them some anyway.
"I have not known one couple who searched the scriptures in regards to this who came back saying anything about wanting to limit their family size."
I have. Sometimes it's simply a matter of taking responsibility by taking care of your body or financial situation. The command to be friutful and multiply easily applies to people making Christians, not just babies.
Katie
"No we are not. God is all-powerful; if He really wants a couple to have children, He can easily break through the barriers of birth control and give them some anyway."
Katie, yes, God is all-powerful. He is sovereign and He certainly orchestrates our steps; but, you can't use this fact as a defense for birth control.
To do so would excuse all sorts of behavior. "If God doesn't want me to shoot my husband he can intervene by jamming my gun." Or "If God wants me to pass that test He will put the answers in my head whether or not I studied."
Yes, God is all-powerful; but, His way is to work through our obedience. Yes, there are exceptions, but those exceptions are not excuses to do "whatever," presuming upon His sovereignty.
After a sadly misspent youth, my husband and I ran out of time to have more than 3 children. No one over told me how great it is to have children. Now I tell mine how great it is to have children and we muse and talk about the best way to arrange it to have a big family — spacing, etc. God restores. I am going to get the Dugger's new book and find out how they do it.
I don't think using birth control really compares with using a gun, physically or morally.
The Bible also says we are not to tempt God. Yes, God is all powerful but we are not to tempt him. To say I'm doing this because I'm done, if you really want me to have more than you need to be bigger than this….is to try and limit God and tempt Him.
I have been in the position of taking control of the womb, I know the defenses people give but ultimatly it's matter of the heart and your trust in the Lord. Trusting and believing the Lord will be faithful to his word to not give us more than we can handle which means he will not give us more children than we can handle, he won't give us too many so that we are unable to raise them up to be strong Christians.
As far as finances and your body it's also trusting God. As you say God is all powerful so he can strengthen your body and he is the provider of all things so he can finacially bless you as well. God won't give you money and say here you go now go have a baby, we are to trust him first that he is faithful to take care of all his people and that when he blesses us he will provide for us. :) The Lord is SO great and will provide in ALL areas for ALL the children he may give us. That's what's so wonderful about it, it's being in complete surrender to the Lord trusting Him in all areas in your life and believeing children are a blessing he gives you. As said in Psalms a REWARD. God is rewarding us and blessing us by giving us children. :)And even if you only have two, they are still your reward. A wonderful blessing from God. Two or ten the ultimate goal is the glory of God right?
I sure didn't mean to compare the two morally. I was simply showing the similar logic. Neither was I comparing birth control to a math exam. :-)
The issue wasn't even over whether or not birth control is always a moral issue; I was simply pointing out that God's sovereignty doesn't prove that our choices regarding life issues don't matter.
Thanks for the confirmation, Stacy. I was pretty sure you didn't mean morally in any case :)
To the other anon, I don't agree. Saying that using birth control is tempting God is playing with the Bible, imo; it's almost akin to a threat. The Bible does not command against the use of birth control. Every couple must make this decision for themselves and most Christians I know have practiced birth control to some degree, whether medical or natural. If God disapproves, I think it rests with Him to speak to this couple or give them children regardless.
Katie
Just so everyone knows, Mrs. Duggar does not wean her children at 6 months to regain fertility. It is how God designed her body. She nurses and while she nurses she gets her cycles early and once she is pregnant, the baby who is nursing fusses, which is her first indication. I would suggest either getting to know someone first before making assumptions or reading a book.
"When you judge others, you are revealing your own fears, insecurities, and prejudices…"
"…Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others…"
Those last two lines are very good advice, Kathryn, including for those who would judge birth control-using couples.
Can we discuss this issue without worrying about "who may be judging who?" I haven't seen anyone here "judge" anyone else for using birth control.
I'd like to delve into this subject a bit more, so I'm going to close down this thread for now while I pray about some things.