January 19, 2008 by Stacy McDonald
Part 2 – Intimacy in Marriage – Unattentive Hubby
[Because of the delicate nature of this topic and for the sake of privacy, I am temporarily allowing anonymous comments. Please choose a "name" to use so that commenters can refer to the correct person when responding. Please keep your comments as vague as possible. There is such a thing as "too much information" in a public setting. I don't have the ability to edit comments, so if your comment isn't approved within 24 hours, you can email me to see why.]
Since beginning our intimacy poll, I have received numerous private emails. Some ladies wrote to tell me that I forgot to add a button – a button for those who are having exciting, thriving marital relations. I am happy to report that many Christian couples are doing very well in this area! Praise the Lord!
But I didn’t forget this button; simply this poll was for the hurting. The wife, who either can’t/won’t enjoy intimacy or the wife whose husband, either by choice or out of helplessness, does not satisfy her needs. Let’s start with Scripture. As married Christians, we must remember that our bodies do not belong to us, but to our spouses. There are warnings and admonitions regarding this:
“Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.” (1 Corinthians 7:3-5)
So let’s try to be sensitive to the many different areas of struggle and pain that couples may face, while keeping our focus on Scripture. There is so much to pray through and discuss regarding this subject. I invite you to join me as we go through this topic slowly. I think it will be a more fruitful discussion if I break up the topics according to our poll.
I would like to discuss next, the wife whose husband does not pay enough attention to his family. Perhaps he is not fulfilling his role as leader. Maybe he’s not leading family worship, spending time with the children, listening to his wife, meeting the emotional and spiritual needs of his family. What should be a wife’s scriptural response? I received the following email recently. This hurting wife has requested to remain anonymous. Do you have some godly input for her? This is what she said:
“My husband and I had an ideal marriage in every way, including intimacy, for many years. Then he became so busy with his ministry to other families that he has no time for me or the children. His time at home is on the phone or computer. He no longer leads family worship and often misses dinner with the family. But he is a good provider and is not abusive. All who would look at him from the Christian world would think he is the perfect husband.
Physical intimacy continues because he has physical needs. He does not talk to me about anything – even household matters irritate him, he does not speak to me lovingly, he never says he loves me (or the children), he never touches me unless it is time… Then I’m expected to be enthused even though I can count on one hand the words he has said directly to me in the past week…
I have gained weight – mostly in one area, my belly – after having several children. I look very good otherwise and don’t have much of an issue with my appearance. Except that my husband never compliments me on my appearance no matter what I wear or don’t wear…
I’ve read all the books. I’ve been sweetly submissive… I am careful to never say anything negative about him to the children or anyone else. I pick up each household responsibility as he drops it and don’t complain. I dress nicely, wear my hair and make-up the way he said he liked years ago; I try to keep the house nice and good food on the table. I even support him in the ministry that has taken him away from me.
But I miss my friend. My best friend. It is very hard for me to love a man who seems to no longer love me or care for me.”
Anonymous
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38 Responses to “Part 2 – Intimacy in Marriage – Unattentive Hubby”
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I am reposting, at Stacy’s request, a comment I made in part one, since it seems to fit better here:
The last time I was in an online discussion where I stated my belief that husbands have a right to marital intimacy I was viciously attacked. (Including my husband being called a rapist.) I greatly appreciate finding this blog and people who share my basic assumptions. These discussions elsewhere make me wonder how much feminist influence affects our ability to be intimate. We are given a message that women have absolute rights over their bodies and our husbands come to us as supplicants. In this view a man has an obligation to put his wife “in the mood” rather than any rights.
I also want to share my thoughts with the anonymous wife who is missing her husband’s friendship:
I suggest that you write to him and let him know what you are thinking and feeling. It is often easier to write than to talk. Tell him what you wrote here – that you respect and admire the work he does in his ministry but that you miss him. A husband needs to understand the situation in order to lead most effectively.
Also, think about how you can make some time to be alone together – perhaps even just putting children to bed and staying home with the phone and computer off. Invite him (like Queen Esther invited her king) to a special time when you dress up for him, give him his favorite foods and give him your full attention. Let go of any expectations for this time, just be prepared to show your love for your husband in whatever way he is open to receiving.
Also pray for wisdom. It sounds like your husband may be suffering from depression or burnout or some such problem. If he is troubled in such a way, you will need wisdom to recognize it and to know how to be supportive of him. Try to keep focussed on your husband’s many good qualities and on how you can help him.
I am one of these anonymous ladies. I am glad that you are allowing anonymous comments right now, for I do not wish to dishonor my husband in any way, which I could most certainly do by commenting through my profile.
First of all, I want to say that I know that what I am required to do as a wife is NOT contingent upon what my husband does or does not do as a husband. I know that God does not allow me to disobey his instructions for wives simply because my husband isn’t doing all that he should do. And I also know that I don’t have it all together as a wife. I long to be the submissive, sweet-spirited wife—but I often fail. I often fail to honor my husband as I should. So, I’m not saying that I have it all together and that my husband doesn’t. I’m just as big a sinner as my husband is.
That said, though, I can so relate to the anonymous woman in this post. My husband, too, looks like the perfect Christian man, always helping anybody who needs anything, being a listening ear for friends who are struggling. He is a hard worker, faithful, honest, a good provider. He is not abusive and does not use pornographpy. He doesn’t drink or swear. He is a good man.
But he isn’t attentive to me or to the children. He barely talks to us. (Yet he can talk HOURS to friends on his cell phone) He doesn’t seem to be interested in doing things with us and often falls asleep when we have family reading time in the evening. He doesn’t encourage me or complement me or pay me much attention at all. And he can sometimes speak harshly to me…in front of the children. And he doesn’t lead the family spiritually. I have shared with him books that I have read that I think will encourage him in this area (Bound for Glory by R.C. Sproul, Jr. and Family-Driven Faith by Voddie Bauchum), but he never picks them up. He rarely even reads his Bible himself. I even bought him a Bible on CD so that he could listen while he traveled to and from work, but he usually talks on his cell phone while he drives. I get so disheartened by his spiritual apathy and his neglect of family worship.
Part of the problem, I think, comes from the mainstream churches we have been involved in. We have NEVER been in a church where men are challenged and equipped to lead their families (or where women are challenged and equipped for wifehood either!). Rather, we have always been in churches that base your spiritual maturity on how many church programs you are involved in, how much you are doing. And so my husband seems (as the anonymous woman’s husband) to equate his Christian walk with “ministry to others.” All the while, the home is ignored.
It is hard to write these words, as I don’t want to dishonor my husband in any way. Actually, I’ve never shared these things with anybody, because I don’t want to appear as a husband-basher.
But I know that this is a real problem. No, we women haven’t arrived. We’re still learning God’s plan for Biblical womanhood, and we’re trying to shut out the feminist lies we have been fed for the past 30 years. But many of our husbands don’t seem to want to be the spiritual heads of their homes. They don’t seem to want the glorious homelife that they could have. And, no, that doesn’t change what we know we need to do. But how do we respond to this situation? Do we remain silent and hope to win them without a word?
If I could move to Peoria, I would. I think being in a church like Providence where the leadership knows the power of spiritual headship in a family and has a vision to that end, would be a very blessed place, indeed, to be!
Thanks, and may the Lord bless you abundantly,
a woman who must remain anonymous so as not to dishonor her husband
I related to the anonymous comment about not receiving support at church for husband’s headship. I was just thinking earlier today about how alone and isolated I feel in this belief. I didn’t realize how much I missed support until I discovered this blog and saw what I have been missing. What a difference it makes having examples and encouragement from others who understand this subject. (Which is why I am posting so many comments, I suppose.)
Anyhow, I want to answer the question:
“But how do we respond to this situation? Do we remain silent and hope to win them without a word?”
I have noticed that the more my husband loves me as Christ loves the Church, the easier it is to submit to him (though there is still very much room for improvement. From what I have read, it sounds like the reverse is also true. It makes sense to me that when a wife submits to her husband it fosters his leadership. Men learn to be leaders by being leaders and we make them leaders by choosing to follow them. I think that doing our part – learning to respect our husbands and turning to them for advice – draws our their leadership abilities. In contrast, giving a husband a book to read (even if it is about husband’s headship) means the wife is taking the leadership role.
Wow, how heartbreaking to live with an unattentive hubby. I have a few friends with this very issue and my heart goes out to all of you. I have learned much from watching my friends. Maybe it can help some of you? And I am from a sovereign grace church which you can find on the web at sovereigngrace.org. There are a ton of resources on there for men and women, lots of messages to listen too, etc… There is one entitled “Watch your man” which talks about our role as women to come alongside our husbands humbly when we see an area that we think they need to reconsider in their lives or the lives of our children. It is excellent and very glorifying to the Lord. Anyway, I said all that to encourage these anonymous women to talk to their husbands and see if they are aware of the issues and how the family is suffering due to their lack of having the family as a top priority. They may just not realize what effect it is having on their wife and children and most importantly their relationship with the Lord. I know I can let things creep in to my life that strangle out my top priorities if I’m not careful. We want to have that grace for our husbands, realizing that it could easily be us that could be struggling with these very issues. Then we can go to them with a humble loving heart and help them see the need for change. Hope this helps:) And I will be praying for you all.
I don’t see anything wrong with giving a husband a book to read. The Bible does say to lead with a Christian example if your husband is not saved, and submitting doesn’t mean remaining silent. If the husband is not saved, his wife can only follow him so far.
Don’t despair about headship, either. Marriage is still a partnership and this means you need to be heard by your husband. Nor should you blame the feminist movement for all the problems in this matter; the church and Christianity had its own problems long before the movement arrived, often with husbands either abandoning their wives (emotionally or literally) or wives being trained to act ineffectively as helpmeets.
I would suggest that you don’t be silent. Be respectful, but if your husband doesn’t notice you enough now, he certainly won’t if you keep utterly quiet. What he needs is a listener, one who will be there for him and talk to him, not one who will either criticize him or act emotionally absent. Let him know that you’re there, and if you’d like him to know Christ’s love, show him what Christ has done for you. This worked wonders for a wife that I know. I’d also suggest that you try talking to him about how you feel (or writing to him, as Jayne suggestes).
I hope I don’t sound presumptious; you know far more about your marriage than anyone here and must ultimately decide what works for you alone, but I do hope you’ll try talking to him. This may be more affective than offering him a book, as he probably cares more about what you have to say than an author :) Good luck
I am the anonymous woman who posted a comment, and I checked back because I wanted to add to my comment. But now I also want to respond to Jayne and Lindsey. I am confused as to what to do. Lindsey’s advice is to talk humbly to my husband, which I have not wanted to do because I do not want to appear as though I am nagging him or trying to lead. Instead, I have chosen to recommend to him some very good books that I have read, with the hopes that the words of the authors will convict him, rather than me nagging him. Jayne’s response is that doing that is a form of leading…which I do not want to do. But wouldn’t talking with him and telling him where I think he’s falling short be just like giving him a book—-taking the lead? I just don’t know how to respond.
And since this post is about intimacy, I wanted to comment about the very thing that Stacy posted about from the first anonymous lady. Intimacy does happen in our marriage, but that is because I KNOW what God says about depriving one another. I know that if I deny my husband because I am not feeling loved, that I am violating the word of God. So, because I long to obey God’s Word, and because I don’t want to give the adversary an opening, intimacy goes on. But, as the original anonymous woman said, it is hard to love a man who basically ignores you.
I am puzzled by Jennifer’s comment regarding I Cor 7:3-5 (in the part one comments): “I’m well-aware of what Scripture says, Jayne, and my point is that a wife is not automatically obligated to say yes, even if she feels fine.”
As I understand this passage wives (and husbands) are obligated to say yes. We are instructed that couples should only refrain from sex by mutual agreement and only for a short time. Perhaps I do not understand Jennifer because I am finding it difficult to see how her position is compatable with Scripture.
I just got through reading the anonymous e-mail. I STRONGLY suggest getting a hold of Dr. S. M Davis’ teachings on ” How A Wife Can Use Reverence To Help Or Save Her Marriage”. I know that he also has a huge selection of marital helps. His teaching I mentioned has blessed my marriage and opened my eyes to see the things I was doing wrong. His teaching is VERY scriptural. Nothing weird. Also, one more thing, praise your husband in your love making. Tell him how wonderful he is. Go on and on about it. It does make a difference. But PLEASE get the CD. It changed things for me.
Your husband isn’t a mind-reader, Anon; you have to discuss these issues with him. I don’t understand how voicing your concerns is a form of “leading”.
“I think that doing our part – learning to respect our husbands and turning to them for advice – draws our their leadership abilities. In contrast, giving a husband a book to read (even if it is about husband’s headship) means the wife is taking the leadership role.” I highly disagree. If the book is given in a respectful manner: “I saw this and thought it matched our goals for our family, and so I thought you’d like to read it too.” versus say, throwing it at him, “Here – this is what you should be!” It’s not taking a leadership role, it’s being a helpmeet. If we’re ALREADY doing what we can and should, and he’s not responding, I believe it IS our place to point it out, after praying long and hard about it. If we don’t communicate about our feelings (in the proper manner) with our husbands – really, is there any point at all to the marriage? And if you can’t… True Christian counseling is called for. We’re not called to be martyrs in our marriage. We’re called to follow scripture. Being submissive in the proper manner is not the same as a doormat. It is not taking a leadership role to communicate a valid (and oh so painful) concern.
Dear sisters anonymous:
I am typing this late at night and am quite frusterated by many things, though I am trying to give them to God. The main thing that stems my frusteration is my concern for you and your husbands. I’ll be quite direct with you here: I cannot see what or who has made you so worried about how you sound to your husbands, but it breaks my heart to see any wife so afraid to simply talk to her mate. It later occured to me that I am also frusterated because I’m taking too much upon myself; this is your marriage and for you and God to take care of. I have been worried about giving you just the right advice, or that someone else will frighten you further about speaking to your husbands, but frankly, I don’t think advice is what you need most right now. So, I’m going to give you my last advice, and this is the same thing I’ve realized that both I and the other ladies here have said before: go talk to your husbands. There’s nothing more we can do for you here; talking to us may relieve you and that is good, but it won’t fix anything else. Turn away from the computer now and go to your husbands; don’t worry about nagging or leading, just talk to them. Staying silent has not gotten you anywhere, nor has giving your husbands books. Enough subtlety, just be direct and tell them what’s on your hearts; a book can’t do that. I don’t need to tell you to be respectful; it’s clear you’ll be anything but disrespectful, considering your fear of offending them. Please, both of you, go to your husband; if you can talk to us, you must talk to him. He is the one who shares your life, your heart, and your home; now, he needs to hear your voice.
Thank you for being brave enough to share with us here. You both remain in our prayers. May God bless you and keep you, and may your husbands richly embrace you.
Hi Jayne – I’m referring to your first question (I sure wish Blogger numbered the comments here – another reason to consider switching to WordPress *sigh*). I think you’re right; the reason your husband was called a rapist by these women for your belief that husbands have a right to marital intimacy is because we as women today have so much feministic baggage. Rather than learning to die to self and seeking to please our husbands (even when it’s inconvenient), we are too focused on how our “rights” might be violated by a man. If we’re honest, we’ll recognize that we want to be certain we are allowed to say “no” not out of fear of abuse, but as a point of control.
That being said, I don’t think there is anything wrong with a wife gently letting her husband know she would prefer to wait until morning or the next night etc. Perhaps she’s tired or maybe she forgot to shave her legs. :-) But if she lets him know her preference and she can tell that he still really wants her (and doesn’t really care about shaved legs), she should put her husband’s needs/wants before her own and happily give herself to him.
One thing we need to remember is that we are talking to women here. If this were a discussion group for Christian men and my husband were writing this to husbands, he would be encouraging the men to “live with their wives in understanding” and to sacrifice for them etc. He would remind them that forcing a wife is not loving or sacrificial, and that his body is not his own, but it belongs to the wife etc.
But we are wives; we shouldn’t focus on what the husband “should” be doing, unless it’s to discuss a godly response to his actions. It’s like I tell my children, “You just worry about what you’re supposed to be doing; let God deal with the other person.”
I agree with Jayne’s second comment to anonymous who is missing her husband’s friendship. Please talk to him (again) and let him know what you’re thinking and feeling. Tell him your struggles. Perhaps you could write him a detailed letter letting him know how badly you miss him. Be honest with your temptations and frustrations. Jayne is right – a husband needs to understand the situation clearly to effectively lead his family.
I need to go get ready for church, but I pray everyone here has a wonderful Lord’s Day today. I’ll try to answer some of these other comments later.
In my own life, I was fed the lie that I had to have a visible church ministry in order to be doing the work of God. There was never a single older woman who came alongside me and told me that God’s will was that I love my husband and children, be pure, etc. and be busy about my home. I was always encouraged to do more at church. And I ran myself ragged trying to do so much.
I think our husbands are under the same false teaching. Since very few churches will teach about family and marriage and roles of husbands and wives, our husbands are led to believe that they have to be busy in multiple ministries if they really are men of God. So, after working hard at their jobs all day, they run themselves ragged ministering to others, all in the name of furthering God’s Kingdom. And they are too exhausted afterwards to give anything to their wives and children.
Just as I needed an older woman to tell me what God’s word said, our husbands also need to know what God’s word says to them about their responsibilities as husbands and fathers. Unfortunately, most churches never touch that subject.
And I wanted to respond to the comment and then Stacy’s response to “not now. Wait until another time.” While I agree that if we are tired (or have unshaved legs!) we might ask to postpone intimacy, we can’t keep that up for days or weeks or months. Some women do (I have in the past when I was exhausted from all my church ministry!). I pushed him aside for several months one time…all because I was exhausted and stressed from doing a bunch of things God had never called me to do in the first place. I was in clear violation of Scripture.
Oh, Stacy, as usual your words are such sage advice. The bible clearly states what we are to do about intimacy with our spouse. Please ladies, talk to your husband. The are your God given mates. I also do not tell my husband no in this area, but as Stacy pointed out, I tell him how I feel( I feel ugly, or I smell like onions, or what a great idea!). As with any relationship we have our ups and downs. My husband is very shy and quiet. I can truly understand trails with communication. But I am called by the Lord to communicate with my husband. And I will obey. Keep Christ and his teachings at the center of your relationship. With this you cannot go wrong.
I’m following this discussion with a lot of interestbecause we struggle with some of these same issues. One thing that I think effects my marriage is that my husband doesn’t understand what I need from him. He seems to think I have my sphere and he has his and then we come together as “equals” (meaning the same). And while we are certainly equal, I don’t think he considers that I’m the weaker sex who comes under his headship. My sphere is within his (if that makes sense). So by not speaking up when I need more (attention, help with the kids, *warming up* time or whatever from him, then I perpetuate that myth that we’re the same and I undermine his leadership because there is a problem I’m not allowing him to fix (because he doesn’t even see it). As a wife I can’t go to him and say “here’s what you need to do” but I can and should say “this is hurting me and hurting our marriage.”
I hope this is making some sense – I’ve been strugling with a very similar situation and reading the comments has helped me sort through some ideas. I think:)
Dear anonymous sisters,
I have been thinking about your letters, and my heart goes out to you. I, too, want to encourage you to sweetly and humbly speak to your husbands. One book which has really encouraged me as a wife is The Excellent Wife by Martha Peace. She has several sections on godly submission, and her book is very biblical. Mrs. Peace does say that if a woman is married to a Christian man, that she can go to him when there is a concern over a sin issue. She is his helpmeet, a co-heir with him, his sister in Christ, etc. She should have a humble attitude, and come with specific scriptures. God has given you to him for his sanctification, and him to you for yours. This does not sound to me like an issue of preference, but one of sin. I am not sure what to say if he does not listen/care. Perhaps Stacy will comment on that…if he is in ministry, it is possible that you should go to the elders if he does not listen to you…not seeking church discipline, but perhaps he is not fulfilling the biblical qualifications for leadership and should step down (1 Tim. 3:5 If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) I don’t think a woman should go to the elders for any little thing she disagrees with. To me, this could be a lack of submission, just wanting to get your own way when he is not sinning, but just not living according to your preferences. However, if he is truly in sin, and you go to him and he does not repent, perhaps that is an option, especially if he is a deacon or elder in the church. If you are in a church that does not practice biblical leadership, then I really feel for you. If your husband IS in sin, and if he does not listen, and your church does not/will not either, then you must cry out to God. He has allowed you to be in this hard place, and He has the power to bring you out of it. May He give you grace and draw you closer to Him in the meantime.
I felt heartbroken when I read this post!
The book “The Excellent Wife” by Martha Peace makes it clear that it is godly to go to one’s husband and rebuke him with regard to his sin. This must be done in the right way, but it must also be done!
“Perhaps I do not understand Jennifer because I am finding it difficult to see how her position is compatable with Scripture.”
That’s all right; you needn’t understand me or my position. The important thing is that God does. However, in case anyone else has questions regarding my position, I will explain it.
What I am saying is nothing more and nothing less than that a spouse may say no if sex is inconvenient, painful, or simply asked at a bad time for them (Stacy explains this better in her post). Spouses are bonded together for more than just sex. In short, Jayne, I agree that sex should not be abstained from unless there’s mutual agreement. However, I also think sex shouldn’t be performed unless there’s mutual agreement.
Of course, I am by no means saying that a spouse should abstain for a lengthy amount of time (for no particular reason). In cases like that, it often ends up as a frusterating and stressful period in the marriage for the person who is deprived of sex. Usually, unless there’s a valid reason, a spouse should not have to be deprived of intimacy with their mate. In fact, since this topic requires a certain level of bluntness, I will (without particualarly graphic detail) suggest that, if one spouse requires sex but the other does not feel up to devoting their bodies to it, the spouse who prefers to abstain from it may try to find another way of pleasuring their partner (there is more than way, after all) Just a thought.
I’d also like to add that I’m aware that some people don’t even particularly care for sex. I’d like to recommend that, if you’re one of them: please don’t get married. I can’t imagine anything more frusterating than a frigid spouse. It would behoove couples to understand each other’s sexual needs before marriage.
I just stumbled on this set of posts and having been married to an inattentive husband for 25 years, I feel I have something to say. Talking might work, but it never worked for me. My husband can’t or won’t let me close enough to him for us to share what I would call “real” marriage. However, we are married for life, so I have learned that the Lord is my husband, too. Jesus can supply my needs for companionship, love, and support, even when my spouse has neglected me to the point of hurt and embarrassment. I have to stop and ask for help, and also be willing to keep forgiving my earthly partner. Yes, it does take away my desire for sex, a great deal. Sometimes I have it anyway, and when I just can’t stand it, I find ways to avoid it for that night. This is real life, and it is hard, but it is a good thing to keep trying. I have been urged to get a divorce, but God has never given me that permission, and I have seen many good fruits from the longevity of our marriage. My husband and I really do love each other, and we are both strong believers; that said, we are suffering from a handicap, so we just make the most of what we have. I learned to stop depending on him for everything, to stop expecting him to change, to do some things on my own, to put my thoughts toward serving Christ, and I found that He met me there and is daily meeting my needs. I have tried to be honest with my children, because they also suffer from this problem in our marriage. It has caused some problems in their lives, but it has also brought us closer together, so that we really can depend on one another in the hard times. I don’t expect that this problem will ever end, although I see a few flashes of light from time to time. However, I am living a fulfilling and mostly happy life anyway.
There is one more thing I want to say, though. Things have always been this way in my marriage; by the time I was married three weeks, I knew we had a major problem. It would be different if I had been close to my husband, and he suddenly turned me off from one year to the next. I might wonder if there was an addiction or another woman. I think we wives have to watch over our husbands in that way, too, and refuse to accept that kind of situation. It has to stop. I’m not saying hire a detective or something, but I think a wife should check what is in front of her, to see if everything looks aboveboard. I once realized that a young woman was “coming on” to my husband and that he was allowing it, in a kind of ignorant way. I confronted him, and it stopped.
Thank you for letting me talk about this. No one in my entire married Christian life of 25 years, always in church, has ever addressed this in a public way. It’s as if the leadership just can’t acknowledge that some men, and some women, too, I’m sure, don’t want to have good, intimate marriages at the risk of their own vulnerability. They either can’t do it or won’t do it, but they are accountable to God for that, not me.
One of the anonymous posters mentions being confused by the advice. I think it is confusing if we only consider people’s actions. Often it is not the action itself that is good or bad, but the attitude we bring to it. We need to pray to know our own hearts so we can understand what attitudes we are bringing to any given situation.
Talking to one’s husband with an attitude of giving him the information he needs to lead is a good thing. It is different from talking to one’s husband to tell him what to do or to nag. Telling one’s husband that one does not feel like love-making to ask if he minds not doing it is fine. Informing him of one’s unilateral decision that there will be no sex is contrary to Scripture. Suggesting a book to one’s husband because one thinks he will want to read it is helpful. Giving him a book to read in order to tell him what to do is undermining his leadership. Bringing one’s concerns about sinful behaviour to one’s husband can be done respectfully and lovingly. I doubt that telling him that he falls short of one’s expectations for a husband can be.
For example, I was thinking about how much difference attitude makes in the case of marital intimacy. If I were to adopt (consciously or not) the feminist idea that I have complete rights over my body, I would tell my husband “no” rather than seeking mutual agreement. And, even were I to say “yes”, it would be with a sense that I am doing him a favour. In practice, my belief that my husband has a right to intimacy does not mean that I make myself miserable constantly having sex when I would rather not. (Which seems to be what most people assume I mean by this.) I can tell my husband when a time is less than ideal for me but it is not a decision I make by myself. He can say that he doesn’t mind waiting until the next day or he can say that he really would rather not wait. He isn’t going to insist on intimacy if I am feeling terribly sick. I am not going to insist on avoiding intimacy if I am merely a bit tired. It is a process of two people who love each other coming to mutual agreement.
And when we are intimate, I do not have a sense that this is a favour I do for him or that he owes me something. I make it a practice to thank my husband after we make love. In part this is because I really do appreciate it, but it is also to remind myself this is something we do for each other, not just something I do for him.
Oh goodness. This is so sad. As someone who is currently preparing to be married, I find this a very important topic to discuss with my future husband. Thank you for bringing it up, Stacy.
As the mother of a very large family, having been married for 27 years to a busy man in ministry, at times I could relate to the feelings expressed by Anonymous. I know that if I had given my husband a book to read he would not have read it just because I gave it to him as a “gentle hint.” That is a male response, right or wrong. Feeling that you are dissatisfied with him will cool his feelings, not make him want to do better. Please no flames, but reading the first few chapters of Fascinating Womanhood might help you understand how men respond.
I’m all for communication and meeting each other’s needs. But you cannot change him, no matter what method you try. Only God can change him. Please pray that God will meet your needs and be prepared to be amazed at how He will work to do just that. Go straight to the One who created you and knows what you need.
Meanwhile, you can only change yourself. Have you read Ephesians 5:33 in the Amplified Bible? “And let the wife see that she respects and reverences her husband–that she notices, regards, honors, prefers, venerates and esteems him, that she defers to him, praises him and loves and admires him exceedingly.” It’s easy to think we are doing everything right when in actuality our hearts are simmering with disrespect. God saw Michal’s secret disgust at David. It’s easy to judge our husbands and take offense at his innocent actions. We create this whole scenario in our minds of what he’s thinking or what he should do and meanwhile he’s going along thinking that everything is fine (no neglect or offense intended).
The marital relationship is so dependent on the mind and attitude, especially for women. I found that if I was struggling mentally, excusing myself for a quick shower, maybe some fragrance and a change of clothes, meanwhile praying for my own attitude, really helped. Or maybe just the praying part.
If you find yourself feeling angry or defensive (YOUR situation is different, etc.) after reading this, then please be careful. Oh, how many times I have been offended by something and then later realized it was truth.
Anonymous, I’m so sorry for your struggles. I can’t imagine what courage and fortitude you must have to go through a painful marriage. Yet, at the same time, I can’t help almost feeling joy for you because of your remarkable faith in the Lord. You’ve looked right to Him in every situation and never made a rash move without looking for His approval. It is miraculous to find such peace in your Father at times of turmoil; thank you for your example and may He continue to bless you and keep you in good faith!
“Often it is not the action itself that is good or bad, but the attitude we bring to it.”
Very well-said, Jayne. I think many would agree with you.
Anonymous (our second lady), praise God that you’ve had a happy and fulfilled marriage. I don’t think you need to worry about flaming; you are in good company here :) Please keep in mind, though, that every marriage and situation is different. As so many here have proven, what may work for one couple may not work for another. God bless
One thought that came to me as I read through all these posts, is are *we* being our husband’s friend? One of the anonymous ladies mentioned that her husband will talk for hours to friends on his cell phone, but not to his family.
Men tend to bond through action. Women like to sit and fellowship. One of the things that I have become aware of over the years, as I have grown in my own marriage, and as I have discussed these types of things with others, is that men *long* for wives who will be their companions ~ in a variety of ways. If your husband is into 4 wheeling, do you ever go out with him? Are you willing to get dirty and do *stuff*? They want (for the most part, there are obviously exceptions) women who are willing to be and do with them. If your husband is a hunter, do you ever go to hunting camp? Do you trek around in the woods with him? Do you help with skinning out and cleaning what he brings home? Many men are frustrated by wives who want to sit at home and be feminine. There is nothing wrong with being feminine! However, that doesn’t negate just being his *buddy* too.
Are you taking an interest in the things that interest him? I am *not* trying to lay more guilt, or shift responsibility from the husband for his actions ~ just trying to offer another point to ponder and pray over. I think it’s one that women, in general miss. Our attitude is often, “He has his interests and I have mine.” But, we need to enter their world and take an interest in the things that interest them, we need to “play” with them, because that is how men connect. I am often amazed at how great a time of fellowship my Beloved will have with another man, when all they are doing is working on a rig, talking mechanics. They don’t even have tea! However, *that* is how men often connect with people in general. I believe that is why God wants us to be their help-meet ~ He wants us in there, side by side with our men, connecting with them in the way He created them.
I also wanted to add, that I know what I’m suggesting can be difficult ~ especially if you have several children or all littles. For some of us, just keeping the house running smoothly, homeschooling the children, and discipling them is about all we can do, and when our husbands get home, we are so involved with what we’re doing, we want him to engage with us ~ by talking, or helping, or doing what we see as “leading”. But, are we willing to engage him in the way “he” needs? I know that as our family has grown, I do less and less outdoors with my Beloved ~ I often have an infant or older nursing baby, and it’s just easier to send the boys out to help their Dad. But am I being the helpmeet, the friend he needs if I am always doing that?
Thank you, Stacy, for bringing this topic up. I think even those of us with marriages who aren’t struggling in this particular way can always benefit from taking some time to evaluate and pray and talk with our spouses about not only we need, but what they need as well. In fact, I think it will be a topic of discussion for us today.
Anonymous (the second lady) here. Oh dear! I didn’t mean to make it sound like “do what I did and it will solve your problems.” Of course everyone’s marriage is different. I meant to caution against feeling that Scripture doesn’t apply to our situation or feeling that we ourselves are doing everything right so we need to focus on what our husband isn’t doing right. Notice I said “we” because I have made those mistakes.
My marriage hasn’t always been happy or fulfilled; we have been through very rough times so I do understand the feelings expressed. I didn’t mean to come across as harsh or know-it-all. (humbly tiptoeing away from the computer and back to the rocking chair…)
Anon-
you certainly did not sound either harsh or know-it-all :) I’m sorry if I gave you that impression. Indeed, you sounded sweet and concerned. I was mainly thinking of Helen Andelin’s book that you mentioned. I personally don’t at all care for her advice and I know it wouldn’t work for me. However, that’s just me, and your advice to look to Scripture is a sure way to help everyone. Thank you for sharing your experience :)
I thought I would post a short note. My husband and I have been through some really rough spots in our relationship in the past couple of years. We hope and pray that it will be used by God to help others.
I relate so much to “missing my friend.” We were christians when we got married and we were friends for a long time. Some how we got to the point that my husband was angry all the time. When he was home he was on the computer or doing anything not to be with the family.
I think the main thing that was missed in the comments was PRAY! God says that if we lack wisdom-ask. I spent a lot of time on my knees. The Lord sent a couple of resources my way: The Excellent Wife by Martha Peace and Love and Respect by Dr. Emerson Eggeriches (we attended a conference). God brought us through a brief time of seperation and then being accountable to two older couples at church. All of it was extremely hard, but fruitful.
I also came to the spot that I recognized by desire to “please man.” I figured that if I was submissive enough, sweet enough, prayed enough or something enough then God would fix the problem. Or maybe my husband would magically see the pain he was causing me. I was free when I decided to try to please my heavenly father and not care what other people thought. It also freed me to not care if others thought I was submissive or not. When I used the Bible as my measuring stick on submission and not anyone else’s opinion I was free to say and do what was necessary to start to heal our marriage.
We desperately need a friend/friends that we can be completely honest with. I prayed for one for years (just one!) and God did not see fit to grant that for years. He did grant it in His timing.
I would like to encourage the dear anonymous ladies to pray and seek out those that would encourage them. I know there were times that I took a direction that I thought I should-fell right on my face. Still God has been faithful. In all of it God has been faithful. I am blessed and truly thankful that God has restored our marriage. It is better than it has ever been. I love my husband more now than ever. We have been able to be honest and intimate with each other like never before. I still remember being stuck and crying out over “encouraging” stories though. I would be so hurt and wonder if my heart would survive long enough for peace in my home.
Hebrews 10:36 says, “You need to perservere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.” I memorized this. There were days when all I could do was beg God to grant my perseverance for right now. God is faithful. Go to him and cling to him.
I could go on and on, but I need to go get some sleep. I will be praying for those hurting ladies.
Dear Ladies,
We are called to renew our minds and think God’s thoughts after Him. It’s easy for us (because we are sinners) to focus on OUR wants, OUR needs, OUR hurts, OUR pain.
What I have found helpful in my relationship with my husband is to focus on God. He is the One who created me and my husband. He designed marriage to be a picture of Christ and the Church.
But how does that play out in real life, when my husband ignores me, or is harsh with me, or stays up late watching TV so there is no time for me? How do I stop the resentment and anger, and just love him?
By renewing my mind. I am to consider myself a servant. My Master is Jesus. He has called me to be a wife, and He has set out what that looks like. I am to love and respect my husband, to serve him, to do him good all of the days of my life.
Okay, so how do I do him good when I am frustrated with him? I remind myself that I am the ONLY one on this earth that can do those things which I do. I am the ONLY one that can legitimately give him a *massage* or other pleasures. It is my duty, and my privilege.
When I consider my husband as my head, and I choose to treat him with respect in obedience to my Lord’s commands, he responds with gratefulness and love.
As I grow in grace and wisdom, I learn more of what it is to “die to self”. There is joy to be found in obedience and in loving someone else selflessly, with no expectation of anything in return. If I learn to do it “as unto the Lord”, then I am learning to walk the way Jesus walked. He came to give His life as a ransom for many. He poured out his life for others. If I am to be like Him (and no servant is greater than his Master) then I need to learn to live selflessly.
Blessings,
Janet
I wanted to thank everyone for sharing theirs hearts with Anonymous. It’s very difficult to give counsel to (or receive counsel from) someone we don’t know personally. God gives us the “real people” in our lives for a purpose and it is a great blessing to be able to give and receive counsel from those who are close to us. Yet when the topic is so personal, it can be very difficult. So I’m hoping this discussion will be helpful to Anonymous as well as to others.
Dear Anonymous,
God has not overlooked your situation. I am sure you know this in your head, but you need to know it in her heart – deep down in the crevices of your soul. God is actively working in the midst of it all – in your lonely times, your busy times, and especially in your seemingly forsaken times. He’s working in you, in your husband, and even in your children – yes, our marital intimacy even affects our children.
You said to me in an email recently, “I know “Jesus is all I need” but sometimes I long for flesh-and-blood love and affection from my husband.”
This is completely understandable. You long for that love and affection because that is what you “should” be experiencing from your husband. Physical as well as emotional and spiritual intimacy is what God intends for marriage; so when you are missing that precious ingredient, of course you feel the sting of that loss.
But praise God He sees us through many situations where we aren’t “getting” all that we “should.” There are many times when God places us in circumstances that are less than the ideal.
Some of you may have heard the recent, sad story of a Christian homeschooling mother who died rather suddenly of a heart problem. She left behind a husband and seven children – including her 2-week-old newborn. My heart broke as I read about the details, but it soared as I learned of the way God’s people stepped in to ease the burden of this precious family. Nursing mothers in the church even donated their “extra” breast milk to help sustain this little one. Families rallied around these dear ones to be the hands and feet of Christ during their trial.
Ideally, this infant “should” have received breast milk from her own mama. Those little ones “should” have had their mother to love, comfort, and train them. I can’t imagine the pain and loss they are experiencing right now. But God has given them a different (and very painful) situation to deal with – and He will use it for their good and His glory – of that we can be sure.
Sometimes pain – especially emotional pain – is a great gift. Since the one who “should” love us is not available, either because of death or sinful neglect (and nobody else in the world will “do”), we are forced to turn to God with our pain. We are forced to let Him fill the void that is empty and raw and hurting. And He does. He comes with his healing salve and fills our emptiness. He is faithful. He is the husband to the husbandless. And though you may have a husband, he may not be “husbanding” every part of your marriage. Let God “husband” the areas where your earthly husband is neglecting you. I understand you want that “flesh and blood” affection, but trust God that He can fill you more completely than any “flesh and blood” husband could – it will just look different. Remember that His ways are not our ways.
The pain may not disappear completely, but you’ll learn that God is “enough.” You’ll learn to not focus on what you’re not getting (because it’s all part of His plan) and accept your difficult situation as God’s shaping tool. Not because it’s the way things “should” be, but because you understand and accept that it’s where God has you right now – and that He will be faithful to do a great work in you in the midst of it.
I’ve shared the above because I am trying to remind us all that we can change only our own behavior. We can’t change our husbands. However, if your husband is in continuous, flagrant sin, you are required by Scripture, as His sister in Christ, to biblically confront him. This should be done with humility, gentleness, and grace – remembering and fearing God and the authority a husband has been given from Him. But it must be done. We will discuss later how to respond to a husband’s unrepentant sin.
In the meantime, please take to heart the many suggestions and comments that have been shared. Janet had some wonderful points about dying to self and learning to prefer others (including our husbands) over ourselves (Romans 12:10). This is the great mystery of the Gospel and it’s at the heart of a godly give/give marriage. I like what Janet said here:
“As I grow in grace and wisdom, I learn more of what it is to “die to self”. There is joy to be found in obedience and in loving someone else selflessly, with no expectation of anything in return. If I learn to do it “as unto the Lord”, then I am learning to walk the way Jesus walked.”
Still, our desire should be to have a marriage where both parties die to self daily and live that mysterious give-give walk that exemplifies Christ and His church. Not because it will make us feel good, fulfilled, or special, but because it glorifies God.
Hi anonymous,
For my part, I would simply tell my husband what I needed. We wives expect a lot from our husbands– and often, fail them by expecting them to think like a woman and intuitively know what our needs are.
If you want or need something, a good way to let your husband know (instead of hinting, or just expecting him to be a mind reader) is just to flat out tell him.
As in,
“Darlin, I wanted to share something with you. Lately, I’ve really felt like I’m not attractive to you. I never hear from you about how I look, or whether you find me pretty. I’m not fishing for compliments here… but this is something I need to know and hear from you. It would help me so much, to be interested in intimacy, and to feel loved by you, if you would take time to regularly tell me if I look nice, or if you notice something in particular about my hair or makeup that looks pretty, etc. It doesn’t have to be something big or ultra-romantic- but just knowing that you still are attracted to me as a woman would encourage me and help me feel loved. I just wanted to tell you rather than bottling it up and feeling angry about it.”
We are wrong when we expect our husbands to be mind-readers. I’m not saying you’ve done this. But if your husband hasn’t heard from you that this is a need, and yet you are feeling angst and frustration because he’s not meeting that need, the responsibility to let him know of your needs (so that he can provide for those needs) rests on YOU.
Blessings,
Jess
“I’d also like to add that I’m aware that some people don’t even particularly care for sex. I’d like to recommend that, if you’re one of them: please don’t get married. I can’t imagine anything more frusterating than a frigid spouse. It would behoove couples to understand each other’s sexual needs before marriage.”
Quoted from Jennifer above
For someone who seeks purity before marriage, has no idea about intimacy or whether or not they are frigid as they are living pure lives, how can you know not to get married until you are already married. This is cruel advice to give to someone who may struggle with this. It would be better to advise someone on how to feel desire, whether it be a physical issue, tiredness, lack of good nutrition etc.
Thank you, Stacy, for posting about these issues in (I think) a beautiful modern take on the commands of Titus 2!
Thank you also for the advice here, in the comments.
What you have written is good and edifying.
God bless you in your labors!
I agree with many of the responses here and in my own similar situation have tried many of these suggestions. I am new to this site and discussion and very grateful for you Stacy and the time you take to encourage other women and moms.
My question is, how do you deal with a husband that when you try to talk to him about feeling alone even just my saying how I feel about anything, he retaliates with pointing fingers or getting angry about something else.
My husband “thinks” of himself as a “Godly” man and “talks the talk” those around us would say he is so perfect and to them he is. He goes out of his way to make others feel that way while I on the inside am completely broken and in pain. My husband KNOWS better! We have been VERY exposed to the scriptural right way to be a husband and wife yet, that is why it hurts even more because I know that he knows what is right.
He works very hard to provide for our large family and I try to go out of my way to be grateful for that, however, I don’t know if he would truly have to work so hard and be away from our family so much if he would get right with God by meeting the emotional needs and being a spiritual leader of our family.
I am an exhuasted mother who feels much like a single mom. I can’t believe that after 12 years of marriage and 5 kids I feel so sad, I know that life is not a fairytale but I truly had dreams that our marriage and family would have JOY and security because of our spiritual foundation. I am just so sad as to how much ground we seem to have lost.
What do you do when your husband is aware of his inattentiveness and acknowledges that his family is not at the top of his priority list? I have this problem with my husband. He is a wonderful person. He would help anyone in need, give them the shirt off of his back, do anything for them…except for his family. He does not spend time with me, or the children. He would rather complain about their behaviour and get mad and leave when they disbehave instead of spending a few minutes with them and helping to train them to behave the way he wants them to. He also notices nothing about me. I can ask him if I look okay (before we leave the house together) and he will say yes without even looking at me…I have done some, er, interesting things with my looks over the years, and he does not even notice. Once I colored my hair (not an odd color, just different), my chiropractor noticed and my husband never did (until the chirpractor mentioned it to him). I get so frustrated. He knows that we need him to spend time with us. I talk to him about it from time to time…always he says he will try, but does not. I don’t know what to do about it anymore.
It breaks my heart and tears at my soul that he does not spend time with us. Sometimes its as if he hates us. Often he will have kind words for others and unkind words for us. What do I do in this situation? He would rather spend time away from home than with us. I do everything I can to make our home a pleasant one. I keep it clean, its a pleasant happy environment, I cook his favorite meals, I keep his laundry done, and I do it with a pleasant spirit. I pray daily that the Lord will not let me be bitter, but it is a struggle sometimes.
Hurting and confused.
I am the anonymous lady mentioned in this article. Thank you to everyone for your concern and advice.
The comments on this and the other intimacy articles were very interesting. I have gained a deep respect for Stacy as I have read her thoughtful comments. (Jennifer will be happy to hear that I haven’t spent much time on this blog or emails to Stacy.) Running a large household and honoring my husband while he is hyper busy with his ministry is about all I can handle right now.
To ease your minds, I have talked (and written) to my husband several times as to my concerns and needs. I (and a pastor) confronted him when he became too close to a woman assisting him in his ministry. I’ve given him good books, even emailed him an occasional article. (He doesn’t have time to read – not even his Bible at times.) We go to a wonderful, family integrated, doctrinally solid church that encourages husbands and wives to fulfill their roles. “I just don’t have time to deal with that right now” is his basic response. He is simply too busy with ministry to make his marriage and family a top priority.
There are seasons in some marriages when the husband does not read books that we give him, he does not respond to notes and letters, and he will not enter into a discussion if it has too personal or uncomfortable a nature. When presented with a need, he just gets very quiet and shuts down or flings himself into activity. He considers it a personal attack and a lack of support for him personally or for his ministry activities… I try to be as supportive as I can. I am proud of all he does and accomplishes, but it is hard sometimes not to resent all that he pours into other people’s families and then has no time or energy for his own.
Many, many women (men don’t make these comments!) have told my husband that he has a special place (or reward) in heaven for all he does. They gush and write sweet notes to him to thank him for the difference he has made in their families’ lives. They occasionally come to me and thank me for all the sacrifices our family makes in order for him to do what he does. I am proud of him, but I often feel like a single mother and I still miss my best friend.
Continue to pray for me and the other anonymous ladies who struggle to honor and respect and love their inattentive husbands. Above all, pray that we will glorify God in our situations.
My final thoughts: Formulaic answers don’t work, but seeking God and focusing on our duty to him does. Not in a changed husband, necessarily, but in our own changed hearts. I have always wanted to be a sweet, encouraging, godly woman when I grow old. Now I see that following Christ, no matter what, through trials and temptations and troubles is what gives those older women their serenity and trust and wisdom. May I become such a woman.
It may be unrealistic to expect a woman to have a normal sexual response if her husband is chronically inattentive and refusing to give her affection.
I only have experience with a situation that is much worse than what’s described here, but there are some functions of normal human sexual physiology that just don’t easily occur when my husband is behaving in a selfish, unkind, mean, or cruel manner.
My body does not readily say “yes,” when I know in my heart that I am despised. And it hurts my heart; sometimes the tears fall from my eyes because it hurts so much to be so close to someone who does not love me.
I think there might be another side to the “men need sex” story. What if women actually _require_ some affection in order to be able to have sex without discomfort? Is that possible? I feel in my heart that it might be.
Do many pastors and teachers know how painful it is, physically and emotionally, to submit to an angry, mean man in this area? I don’t know. I once read that women who had severe relationship difficulties have a risk of bladder infections that is several times greater, due to unwanted sex causing small injuries. Bladder infections are very, very painful. If they become chronic, it can be horrible to live with.
It’s a lonely place to live in some ways. I can’t tell my pastor or elders about this particular issue, can I? (They are helping us with other things.) And it would be hard to tell anyone at all without the blessing of anonymity. I sometimes wonder if this is an area where it would be better to say, “No. You are not treating me well or kindly, and I will not have sex with you unless you do.”
That sounds terrible to me, but could there ever be more to refusing than meets the eye? I’m not saying, because I don’t know. I do hear that there is a lot of wifely control and manipulation in this area, and I don’t want to go there. But it hurts _so much_ to say yes and try to be friendly and welcoming to a mean man who is almost like a stranger to me.
Talk to my husband? I have, repeatedly. Abusive men really don’t listen to their wives and change their behavior to bless them! I mean, that’s just not in the picture at all! For some men, knowing that their behavior hurts their wives is very satisfying, in fact.
We had several good months in 22 years of marriage, so I know that this can be a wonderful, sweet, precious experience. But for me it is difficult. When my husband’s behavior has been especially bad, it has been horrible, so I have avoided as much as possible without outright demanding that he stay away from me.