July 20, 2007 by Stacy McDonald

Whitewashed Feminism

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There is a sly movement afoot and it’s very dangerous and enticing. It could be called Christian feminism, except that I don’t think it’s possible for feminism to be labeled Christian. Perhaps we should call it whitewashed feminism, because though it’s seemingly softened for the Christian pallet, it’s still feminism.

It’s enticing because it feeds on a woman’s desire to be in control – and it’s sly because it claims to be based on Christianity. The current buzz words are “hyper-patriarchy” and “patricentricity.” There are groups and individuals who claim Christ and hate patriarchy because it means “father-rule.” When you see teachings that complain about how Christian women are being “held back” (either in the the church or the family) by men, be very, very careful.

Compare everything you read to Scripture and discuss any questions you have with your husband and elders. God has given us our authorities for our protection, instruction, and ultimate good. (Hebrews 13:17) Of course, there are those who may tell you no one should rule over you, so why should you listen to your husband or elders? Don’t be deceived.

Elizabeth Elliot, in her essay called The Essence of Femininity, says this, “The feminist theology of Christians (I cannot call it “Christian feminist theology”) is a Procrustean bed on which doctrine and the plain facts of human nature and history, not to mention the Bible itself, are arbitrarily stretched or chopped off to fit.” (Please click on the link and read the whole essay!)

She goes on to share how feminists who claim their views are based on Scripture, must thoroughly revise the doctrines of creation, man, Trinity, and the inspiration of Scripture, and reconstruct religious history, with the intent of purging each of these of what is called a patriarchal conspiracy against women.

You see, the two just don’t jive. Feminism is diametrically opposed to Scripture. And white washed feminism is confusing and burdening the Christian wife and mother who is attempting to die to self.

As feminism has infiltrated even the church, there is a growing trend to legitimize the most common sins and weaknesses of women – rebellion to male authority, independent power, and a desire for what God has not given her. Rather than help her repent and recover, the feminist voice says she’s being treated unfairly and deserves more.

For when they [false teachers] speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh. 2 Peter 2:18

There are a plethora of false preachers, speakers, teachers, and bloggers who are willing to tickle our ears under the guise of “encouraging” us and “freeing” us from the chains of patriarchy (biblical living). They are deceived. True Christian liberty comes from having the freedom not to sin.

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.” (2 Peter 2:19-21, NKJV)

We must learn to study and think for ourselves. Don’t be deceived by smooth speech or sugar-coated words. Compare what you read to Scripture and be careful to “check out your sources.” Be Bereans. This is my prayer for you.



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26 Responses to “Whitewashed Feminism”

  1. Mrs. June Fuentes says:

    ‘Feminism has infiltrated the church’—this sad statement is so very true today. The lines between feminism and biblical femininity have been blurred and it is hard for the new Christian female to find her way. I am greatly disturbed by the increase of wrong thinking in the church in regards to biblical womanhood—this is why sound preaching from the pulpit is essential and Titus 2 woman must rise up and teach the younger.

    As women we must study the word of God for ourselves and draw biblical conclusions of what the Lord mandates in our lives. We must be discerning and saturated with His Word in order to distinguish the Truth from lies.

    Thank you for this post. Many blessings…

  2. Corrie says:

    “There are a plethora of false preachers, speakers, teachers, and bloggers who are willing to tickle our ears under the guise of “encouraging” us and “freeing” us from the chains of patriarchy (biblical living). True Christian liberty comes from having the freedom not to sin.”

    Hi Stacey,

    I think there are many who are concerned about how certain scriptures are not accurately handled. I think these people are not at all “feminists” (a label that tends to be stuck to anyone who disagrees with anything taught under the guise of “patriarchy”) but people who truly want to rightly divide scripture.

    I think I know whose blog you are referring to by using the word “encouraging” and right now it is discussing a recent podcast where a man twists scripture to make his point.

    I think if we just stuck what the Bible says, we will all be fine but it is when people go beyond what it teaches, that the problem comes. It isn’t “feminism” to expose false teaching, even when these false teachings fall uner the guise of “patriarchy”.

    There are a lot of doctrines that I do agree with that are taught under the heading of patriarchy but I cannot abide teachings who twist scripture and misrepresent it in order to make a point.

    And that goes for both the feminists and the patrarchalists.

    “We must learn to study and think for ourselves. Don’t be deceived by smooth speech or sugary words. Compare what you read to Scripture and be careful to “check out your sources.” Be Bereans. That is my prayer for you.”

    I couldn’t agree more! And this is exactly what many of us ARE doing.

    Thank you for allowing my comment!

  3. Stacy McDonald says:

    Hi Corrie,

    You are more than welcome and thank you for posting. Please note that I am not referring to any one blog in particular – there are so many to choose from!

    I would agree with you that we should all stick to what the Bible says, that we should not go beyond what it teaches, and that we should never twist Scripture to make a point. Amen! I suspect, however, that we would disagree on what constitutes the twisting of Scripture as well as who is “sticking to what the Bible says” and who is not.

    And that’s ok. We can disagree and be sisters in the Lord. We can speak the truth in love without assassinating the character of a brother or sister in the Lord. As long as we remain teachable and discuss things with a humble and gentle spirit then I think we all have room for learning and growing. And we can be passionate about our beliefs – whatever they are – as long as we’re willing to be wrong and show charity to those with whom we disagree.

    The biggest problem I have is when ladies (and men) claim they are championing the truth by naming a particular teacher, speaker, pastor, or writer, and then publicly question his/her motives and character. Often this is done without contacting their target or by using misquotes, assumptions (presented as probable facts) or insinuations that castigate.

    If someone posts with an opposing viewpoint they are quickly snuffed out by the smirking keyboards of the collective. It reminds me of a school yard taunting, rather than a godly exchange. Wise and profitable discourse does not include backbiting, arrogance, slander, or gossip.

    I know I have been guilty of being less than charitable in the past. I am still learning to communicate with gentleness and humility. It’s difficult for me because my natural inclination is to react with my emotions and speak before I think – sometimes that means I say things I regret.

    I hope this clarifies for you my stand. I am working on a deadline for a book, amidst taking care of my home and family, so I cannot dedicate any more time to this subject for now. Again, thank you for posting.

    P.S. Just out of curiosity, do you believe that women should be allowed to be ordained elders in the church?

  4. Mrs. Brigham says:

    Thank you for this post. As a woman who was once deeply involved with feminism, I do still struggle with banishing the teachings of this nasty movement from my head and am very thankful for the many wonderful ladies, such as yourself, who speak the Truth and challenge others to grow in their walks with our Lord. God Bless!

  5. Anonymous says:

    Mrs. McDonald,

    Would you allow your adult daughter to move out on her own if she desires to instead of staying at home under her father’s headship until she’s married? Do you believe it’s unbiblical for a girl to move out and get a job before she is married? What about going to college?

    Paula

  6. Stacy McDonald says:

    Hi Paula,

    Our “adult” daughters are intelligent, resourceful, well spoken, and well educated. They are certainly better equipped to handle life than I was at their age. They are also very opinionated and able to make their own decisions. They are not kept home to enjoy their family by force. A similar question would be, “Do you “allow” your adult children to walk away from the faith?”

    Our conviction, which also happens to be the conviction of our adult daughters, based on our reading of Scripture, is that it is unwise for a girl to leave the protection and headship of her father until she marries. We have one married daughter who is expecting her first child soon – and she (as well as her husband) would tell you how thankful she is that her father loved her enough to protect her.

    Our daughters are quite content and very thankful that their father loves them enough to be willing to make this commitment to them.

  7. Spunky says:

    Stacy you said, “Our conviction, which also happens to be the conviction of our adult daughters, based on our reading of Scripture, is that it is unwise for a girl to leave the protection and headship of her father until she marries. “

    Thanks for your answer Stacy.

    We definitely believe in biblical patriarchy in our family. I don’t fear or despise male-led leadership in the home or in the church. I have enjoyed great liberty in being my husband’s wife and the mother of our six children. I am truly seeking to live my life in service to the Lord as His daughter and my husband’s wife.

    Further, I am not a “white-washed” feminist by any definition used. However, I do however have legitimate questions about some of the teachings coming from ministries that I have previously supported. Since you have been involved with the book, So Much More by the Botkins, I’ll use their text along with this post as an example of one of my questions within with how biblical patriarchy is defined and applied by those that teach its principles.

    On the back cover of the book in your endorsement of this book you wrote, “Anna and Elizabeth Botkin have managed to expose the feminist lies that have indoctrinated our western culture and even crept into the church.”

    One of those lies that they exposed was that of women foreign missionaries. (Chapter 17)

    They write, “One thing we never see in the Bible is women working in missions organizations or any first-century equivalent. What those godly women of the early church did do was serve in their homes, families, communities and churches, and they had a powerful witness serving God His way.”

    They make the claim that there is a “wrong way to do right” and young women serving on the foreign mission field is one such example.

    Contrast their teaching with your post in which you quote Elisabeth Elliot and hold her essay the “Essence of Femininity” as a defense against the sly movement of “white-washed feminism” that is creeping into the church.

    But wouldn’t Elisabeth Eliot be in fact one of the pioneers of this “Christian feminist movement?” She was a student at Wheaton College studying classical Greek when she went Ecuador alone as a foreign missionary. She remained there for a year before she married Jim. After his death, she continued working among the tribal region as a young single mother with a 10 month old daughter alongside her. The Botkin girls would call such service “not purely biblical” (p 263) and her service a “wrong way to do right.”

    To use your own words Stacy, the two just don’t jive. How can Elisabeth be instructing us about the essence of femininity and at the same time act in a manner that the Botkin’s book calls “not purely biblical?” As someone who endorsed their book, do you believe this as well?

    Stacy, I am sympathetic to your book deadline and home obligations. As a busy mother and writer, I can totally relate. But as a leader in this movement, clarity in the discussion is necessary so there is no confusion in what is being said or taught. Especially in an area where our young daughters are reading your blog and the books of those that seek to influence their lives.

    I ask these questions in the same spirit in which you asked Corrie about elders in the church. (Which I believe should be men.) Would you and your husband bless the decision of your young unmarried daughters to follow the path of Elisabeth Elliot and go to a foreign mission field to work?
    Can a young unmarried woman be the essence of femininity and at the same time live as a missionary in a foreign land?

  8. Stacy McDonald says:

    Hi Spunky,

    I appreciate you understanding my time crunch and lack of adequete time to discuss this in much detail.

    So, rather than comment on all of your commentary :-) allow me to just answer your questions as briefly as I can:

    “Would you and your husband bless the decision of your young unmarried daughters to follow the path of Elisabeth Elliot and go to a foreign mission field to work?”

    No, we would not encourage our unmarried daughters to go to a foreign mission field – we would in fact discourage it. I am not convinced that Elisabeth Elliot would encourage the same thing in her own granddaughters today – but, perhaps I’m wrong. You could point to things I did even 10 years ago, that I wouldn’t encourage in my daughters now. God changes us. That said, I don’t know where Elisabeth stands on this at this point in her life. I may have to ask her.

    That being said, I love Elisabeth Elliott and I have been greatly encouraged by her teaching over the years.

    I don’t know of a single person of whom I can say I whole heartedly and completely agree with on every issue – including my own husband! Can you?

    “Can a young unmarried woman be the essence of femininity and at the same time live as a missionary in a foreign land?”

    Yes, a young unmarried woman can certainly be the “essence of femininity” while living as a missionary in a foreign land – as unprotected as she may be.

  9. Corrie says:

    Hi Stacey,

    I answered your “p.s.” to me but it hasn’t shown up. It probably was lost in transmission again. My wireless has been buggy lately.

    “P.S. Just out of curiosity, do you believe that women should be allowed to be ordained elders in the church?”

    No, I do not think the Bible allows for women to be ordained as elders. Nor do I think that women should teach a mixed group of believers as part of a formal class IN the church.

    But, I also think that women should be allowed to introduce their own visitors in the church service and that they should be allowed to give their own prayer requests when appropriate. They should not have to go through a male mediator in order to do so.

    On both sides I see things being taught in the name of scripture that are just plain wrong. We are limiting women where they should not be and we are allowing them where the Bible prohibits.

    I also think that a husband/wife team can teach the Bible to a group of believers (both male and female) in an informal setting. (Priscilla and Aquilla)

    I do not believe that every man is over every woman and that every man, just because he cracks open his bible and begins to show what the Lord has shown him, is my authority. The elders are the authority in the church and everyone under them are equal to one another and equally under the authority of the elders.

  10. Stacy McDonald says:

    Thanks for answering, Corrie! And thank you for clarifying your other positions. Praise God! I do believe we are in agreement! :-)

  11. Molly says:

    Stacy, you said that you are, “living out a life they either don’t agree with or they’re not willing to live out.”

    I’m not sure if you’re aware just how wrong that statement is. I think if you could peek in many of our homes, you would be shocked. Many of us (who disagree with style of patriarchy espoused by Vision Forum, etc) are homeschooling moms of many. Many of us encourage other mothers regularly. Many of us seek to find ways to honor and bless our husbands.

    I *believe* in being a good mother (to the glory of God). I believe that one of my highest callings right now is managing this crazy joyful home of mine. I believe in honoring my husband. I believe in embracing where God has me—which is in the world of a homeschool mom with a bouncy pack of youngsters.

    You do not have to believe patriarchy in order to believe those things. Patriarchal teachings tend to claim that either someone is in their camp, or they are a terrible mess. I know that’s what I believed when I was in that camp.

    But the truth is that there are many homes with happy marriages and joyful children, withOUT patriarchy.

    We *can* have valid complaints with patriarchy that *are* based on Scripture (as mine are)—meaning the issue isn’t whether one camp is Scriptural and the other isn’t, but that the two camps are simply seeing Scripture differently.

    I think the verbal assumption that our homes must be “lesser,” an assumption stated as fact and done so without any actual evidence but simply because we disagree with a certain view of patriarchy, is unwarranted and clouds out the real issues.

    Respectfully,
    Molly

  12. Stacy McDonald says:

    Hi Molly,

    I’m sure your home is very nice. Where did I say your home must be “lesser?” I’m really not sure what you mean. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.

    You said:
    “Patriarchal teachings tend to claim that either someone is in their camp, or they are a terrible mess. I know that’s what I believed when I was in that camp.”

    Please don’t ascribe what “you believed” to everyone else. This type of generalization could lead to false accusations.

    You said:
    “But the truth is that there are many homes with happy marriages and joyful children, withOUT patriarchy.”

    Once again this is a fallacious statement. Just because there are “happy” families that are oblivious to patriarchy doesn’t make patriarchy any less biblical.

    I also still believe it is important to remember that many people are defining patriarchy differently.

    I have heard of several references to various teachers or ministries (sometimes with very different theological backgrounds and positions)and using them as the example of patriarchy. Obviously, this could cause quite a bit of confusion.

    Instead of lumping everyone into “two camps”, if you would like to be more specific with your complaints of patriarchy, perhaps it would be easier to discuss.

  13. Anonymous says:

    Mrs. McDonald,

    Thanks for answering my question about adult daughters. I wasn’t asking to be critical I was mainly curious. I’ve been reading your blog for a while now and you have an amazing Christian family. It’s nice to read about a strong family especially when all you hear about in the media is single moms, divorce, gay “marriage” and cohabitating.

    Paula

  14. Christy says:

    Molly said:

    “But the truth is that there are many homes with happy marriages and joyful children, withOUT patriarchy.”

    For the Christian family, this cannot be true. No Christian home can be fully complete or happy when God’s principles are violated.

    Patriarchy is a beautiful outworking of God’s creation design. As Christ is the head of the church, so our husbands are the head of our marriage and our families. Christ never once rivaled His father, and we should have no desire to rival our husbands. Christ did not desire to submit, but do a little of His own thing. He did not need His own identity. We should be complete and joy-filled over the fact that we are one with our husbands, as Christ is one with the Father.

    I think if women truly understand what God has planned for them as wives, mothers, and keepers of their homes, they would see the truth that they are changers of the world. When you can change the world through your God-given position as a daughter, a wife, a mother — why (this really baffles me) would anyone go after the lesser things that only weigh you down and keep you from the greater thing? Truly puzzling!

    Speaking for our “camp” and our home, we do believe in patriarchy. Believing in patriarchy does not exclude the belief that our women/girls should be educated (which does not always mean they must leave home and go to college), that they should be challenged to learn, to think, and to be industrious in many ways. There are hundreds of ministry avenues that are available to our daughters. They do not need to find themselves or become independent in order to be fulfilled (which, by the way, is not mentioned in Scripture, so our satisfaction in life is not the goal).

    I am hearing the Christian “feminists” balking — there is a common underlying tone that says, “You can’t make me be a doormat!” Dear sisters, that is what Satan wants you to become — a doormat. He wants you to think that, if you don’t have your own calling and you don’t get to announce visitors in church, and if you have to be quiet at a meeting, then you are oppressed. This is utter nonsense.

    Having once believed that I was supposed to be a dynamo for Christ and do it on my own two independent feet, I am completely amazed at how deceived I was. I am so thankful that God is gracious and that He shows us the better and right way, even when we are obstinate and determined. My goal was, in actuality, self-destruction. But thanks be to God for showing me that His design for me, as a wife and mother, was far better than being a wife, mother, plus my own desires and felt needs.

    Our charitable spirits are being challenged through these discussions. I pray that we will not sow divisions or anger.

  15. Stacy McDonald says:

    Christy,

    Thank you for posting! You are so right – Satan would love for us all to believe the lie that says following God’s ways turn us into doormats – but as usual, He has twisted the truth, because that is exactly what the father of lies wants to make us into – his doormat!

    Interesting in light of Genesis 3:15.

    The truth is if we want to live, we must learn to die (to self). In serving others for Christ’s sake we will find true joy and satisfaction – in Him!

    “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”” (Mark 10:45, NKJV)

  16. Spunky says:

    Stacy thanks for your answers.

    You said, “No, we would not encourage our unmarried daughters to go to a foreign mission field – we would in fact discourage it. I am not convinced that Elisabeth Elliot would encourage the same thing in her own granddaughters today – but, perhaps I’m wrong. You could point to things I did even 10 years ago, that I wouldn’t encourage in my daughters now. God changes us. That said, I don’t know where Elisabeth stands on this at this point in her life. I may have to ask her.”

    I have a friend who was personally counseled by Elisabeth Elliot after the premature death of her husband. Elisabeth Elliot encouraged the young woman to go to the foreign mission field. She followed her advice and she along with her sister-in-law went overseas. But that’s a personal story without documentation that happened 20 years ago, so something more current would be helpful and more credible.

    In 2002, Elisabeth Elliot published her newletter where she featured Amy Carmichael and called her “God’s Missionary.” Clearly, a hero to Elisabeth, she publically praised Amy’s service and commitment to the Lord and the mission field. In the article she quotes Amy Carmicheal who said, ” “I would never urge one to come to the heathen unless he felt the burden for souls and the Master’s call, bu oh! I wonder so few do…”

    Elisabeth Elliots view on foreign missions hadn’t changed as of 2002. If they had, certainly she would have issued some caution at this time. None was given. (PDF link available on her website.) As an aside, I wonder how she would feel about a book where Amy is featured and used in a way to actively discourage missions?)

    In 2005, a young lady wrote to Elisabeth asking for her advice on foreign missions. Elisabeth sent her a short response which led to her going to Kona, Hawaii as a missionary. While not the “foreign” field as the others, this still was not “under her father’s roof” and within the local church that she returned to.
    (Here’s the link
    http://www.inspiredchristian.org/cyber/05/060505ld.html)

    So clearly, we see from three sources that Elisabeth Elliot’s views on foreign missions are very much toward women going if that is God’s calling. I suppose it is possible that in the last 2 years who views have changed, but there is nothing written to indicate a retraction of her previous exhortations toward foreign missions.

    Obviously that is a point of disagreement between you and Elisabeth Elliot. But people don’t always agree on everything. As you rightly said, “I don’t know of a single person of whom I can say I whole heartedly and completely agree with on every issue – including my own husband! Can you?”

    Of course not. And the fact that you and Elisabeth disagree on foreign missions and have endorsed a book that publically calls out her hero Amy Carmicheal, is no way an indication of a sly movement you are part of to tear down her work, her ministry, or the women she admires. I would be foolish to make such an assertion based on such disagreements.

    Couldn’t the same be said of other bloggers who have public disagreements with how certain people define patriarchy and apply it in there lives? Of course it could.

    Stacy, the accusation of a sly movement is unfounded. There are women who disagree strongly with some of what is written, but to elevate it to the level of an attack or movement, does a disservice to the Body of Christ.

    “Come let us reason together.” Let us talk about the substance of what each has written without the suspicious assertions of sly and dangerous movement directed by “white-washed” feminism. Atleast for me, as a blogger who has participated in the discussion, such is definitely not the case.

    The fact that Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 7:25 “Now in regard to virgins, I have no commandment from the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy.”

    If Paul could not clearly make a Scriptural command concerning the “virgins” and could only offer an opinion tells me that we’re likely not going to do much better ourselves. But that doesn’t mean that we can’t discuss these issues as reasonable Godly women who have heart to obey God and do what is best for our families without assuming sly or dangerous motives from anyone on either side of the debate.

    It is my heart and earnest prayer that we can do exactly as Paul has done and offer our opinions and reason together as sisters in Christ.

  17. Spunky says:

    Stacy, after I posted I took the occassion to reread Elisabeth Elliots biography on her website. A couple of things struck me as I read about her life,

    1. She still calls herself Elisabeth Elliot. Her URL is identified by the name of her first husband, not her second or third.

    2. She allowed two unmarried men into her home as lodgers. One eventually married her, the other married her daughter.

    3. She was college educated and asserts that her studies in Classical Greek enabled her to work in the area of unwritten languages to develop a form of writing.

    Stacy, anyone of these items along with her ten years as a foreign missionary could be viewed as an act of feminism by a very independent minded woman, couldn’t they?

    And given that she is a Christian acting in such a manner, one COULD make the claim that she is an early pioneer in the “white-washed” feminist movement at odds with Biblical Patriarchy.

    But I for one won’t be so bold as to make such a charge. Not against her, or any other Christian women who disagrees with my own application of Scripture or decides to live in a manner differently than the way I would live.

  18. Ron and Ginny says:

    Thank you for not posting my reactionary comment. ;-) After reading Christy’s comment, I see that patriarchy is what I thought it was. I really don’t understand the flap over it. It is basic biblical stuff. Thanks for clarifying. That said, don’t think that I have it down pat. I still struggle against the flesh with regard to respect for authority, but I do acknowledge that when I don’t show proper respect for authority, it is sin. Well, maybe I am saying too much even now. Sorry.

  19. Anonymous says:

    Good morning. I would like to comment on Spunky’s observations about Elisabeth Elliot using the name “Elliot.” Thankfully, I have been able to attend several conferences given by Elisabeth. She has always blessed me so very much!

    At all of the conferences, Elisabeth’s husband, Lars Gren, introduced himself before Elisabeth spoke. He was/is very active in the ministry, handling all sound aspects, running the book table, and handling all details (to my knowledge, Elisabeth is not doing many speaking engagements these days, but Lars is still selling the books and handling details). In my opinion, Lars was very much the loving head of Elisabeth as she spoke.

    At the beginning of the talks, I remember Lars always telling about Elisabeth’s husband, Jim, and her second husband, Addison Leitch. He honored these men, and then discussed the fact that for her speaking ministry, so as not to confuse, Elisabeth uses the name “Elliot.” He then would introduce Elisabeth to the crowd as his wife, Mrs. Lars Gren (or Elisabeth Gren). In my opinion, he did a wonderful job explaining the pen name and the married name aspect.

    If you would like to read some of Lars’ own writings, he frequently had a column on the last page of Elisabeth’s newsletters which are no longer published. You can find the archives for them on Elisabeth’s site. Notes from Lars were usually on the last page of the newsletters.

    Spunky, I wanted to mention all of that above because through the years, I have gotten the unmistakable feeling that Elisabeth rested under the kind authority of her husband. She loved it when people honored her marriage by calling her Mrs. Gren. I do not believe that the use of her pen name “Elisabeth Elliot” is evidence of feminism. Great pains seemed to be made by the Grens to explain the use of the pen name, and Elisabeth’s desire to be known as the wife of Lars Gren.

    With love in Christ,

    Sarah in Ga.

  20. Anonymous says:

    Regarding : Feminism in the church.

    Please check out http://www.herchurch.org

  21. Jennifer says:

    “I am greatly disturbed by the increase of wrong thinking in the church in regards to biblical womanhood”

    So am I: women being told to be quiet and not speak or even take communion for themselves? Horrid! It hasn’t been hard for me to find my way as a Christian female. I just use my gifts to exalt God. And what is my main gift? Words and speaking! :)

  22. Stacy McDonald says:

    “women being told to be quiet and not speak or even take communion for themselves? Horrid!”

    Jennifer, Scripture tells us women should be silent in church. That’s God’s Word – you can’t argue with that.

    “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.” (1 Corinthians 14:34)

    “And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

    However, this does’t mean women can’t offer prayer requests or speak before (or after) worship.

    As far as communion, I don’t know of any church where women are forbidden to take communion for themselves. I have been in churches where fathers distributed communion to their families, but I’ve never known a woman to be “forbidden” from taking communion for herself.

    At our church the families go forward together and the elders distribute the elements to each of the family members. Singles usually join one of the families for communion.

  23. Jennifer says:

    “Scripture tells us women should be silent in church.”

    What exactly do you mean by silent, Stacy? Do you mean silent only during the service, or silent the entire time they’re in church? I am curious.

    “I don’t know of any church where women are forbidden to take communion for themselves”

    You are blessed, then, but I do. I have heard of more than one church in which a wife cannot take the bread for herself; her husband must do it for her, and if her husband is not present, some other male must do it for her, even one of her own children. One church like this also forbids women from speaking at all; her boy-children are allowed to speak before she does.

    I am glad to hear that your church does not practice this; it sounds quite lovely and family-oriented :) Thanks for being so welcoming to singles, I might like to stop by! (if I’m ever in Texas, hopefully. I hope you guys have good Mexican food down there! :)

  24. LadyLydiaSpeaks says:

    I was just reading in the Bible this morning about people who want to be contrary, those who use great swelling words, etc. and I also found an old collection of sermons, published in 1947.

    The title of the Sermon is “Studies in Corinthians,” and here is a part of it. Those men minced no words!

    “Paul then tells us not to keep company with a railer. That simply means a man who talks too much. It means one who rails out against other people. Such a person is worse than a murderer. The church of our Lord is afflicted with people. some of them preachers, who are continually gossiping about other people. Any scandal is sweet morsel to their ears. A brother once told some scandal – lies – about a brother preacher. That preacher said, “You apologize or I’ll sue you for slander.” The brother said, “Oh, you’d violate the Bible law about going to law with a brother, would you? ” Of course, the brother preacher was wrong in threatening to go to law, but a man ought to “put up or shut up.” There ought to be some weay to stop the mouths of scandalmongers. We ought to treat them as heathen and barbarians. Indeed, they are such.”

    We are too polite to say such things, but this is the way preachers kept an awareness of shame on society in general.

  25. Kat says:

    I do wish more people would pay closer attention to the way Jesus himself treated women…and the things he said to them. This would clear up so much confusion.

  26. Amy says:

    Well we have a femist in our church who says the Bible needs to be re written, that children are trash, and who thinks she needs to change our particular church and she probably means all churches that are not feminist. I’m a God fearing Christian woman and I believe in what is written in a not rewritten Bible.

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